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It's totally crazy that Tesla gets included with real companies. It's a meme stock with a 323.88 price to earnings ratio. It has no business being in the S&P 50
by cramsession 6mo ago
It's totally crazy that Tesla gets included with real companies. It's a meme stock with a 323.88 price to earnings ratio. It has no business being in the S&P 500 and should quite frankly be delisted.
- seydor 6mo agospace datacenters will need tesla powerwalls. also, flying saucers are using tesla superchargers onow
- amazingamazing 6mo ago[flagged]
- zhengyi13 6mo ago... and the standard reply to this standard reply is "The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."
- bombcar 6mo agoThe problem is it's very easy to make a long-term bet the stock will go up (buy the stock) but it is very hard to make a long-term bet the stock will go down (you have to pick a date by which it occurs).
- zeroCalories 6mo agoIt's actually easy. Just sell and invest somewhere else.
- IAmBroom 6mo agoNot the same thing at all.
- solatic 6mo agoYou're correct, but your assertion needs a qualifier: it's hard for small investors to make a long-term bet that a stock will go down. Large investors do not need to purchase index funds, instead they can direct index and purchase the underlying stocks directly. If you're a small investor, the index funds offer diversification but without the ability to divest from individual stocks covered by the index; large investors that are direct indexing can just decide to exclude meme stocks and not buy them, and in so doing make a long-term bet that those stocks will underperform the rest of the index (and without needing to pick a specific date by which that underperformance will happen, unlike a short). There's an argument to be made that there should be a maximum share price (stocks that reach the maximum trigger an automatic stock split), and that stocks should be allowed to trade for fractions of a penny (after all, what really prevents this in a day and age where all trades are electronically settled? Nobody needs to cash out for literal copper pennies...). Much smaller individual share prices would make it more feasible for smaller investors to build direct indexing strategies.
- bombcar 6mo agoTrue, though there are some ways of even relatively small investors doing direct indexing. But when you start modifying the index you're not really indexing anymore ... And this is not really a bet against the stock, just a value tilt away from it betting that there are better performance elsewhere. You don't make money because TSLA tanked, you make money (or don't lose money) because your money was elsewhere.
- ceejayoz 6mo agoShorting requires both being right and good timing on when everyone else figures out you're right. Famously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Burry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Burry > During his payments toward the credit default swaps, Burry suffered an investor revolt, where some investors in his fund worried his predictions were inaccurate and demanded to withdraw their capital. Eventually, Burry's analysis proved correct: He made a personal profit of $100 million and a profit for his remaining investors of more than $700 million.
- johnnyanmac 6mo agoYeah, if Elon pulling off a Seig Heil and literally running away with a country's data wasn't good times to short, I don't know what will. You basically need to predict his death at this point. Which is unlikely due to being rich and not extremely old. But not off the table if you look behind the scenes at his habits.
- cramsession 6mo agoI do hold TSLQ (and it's been doing great). That being said, Musk has engaged openly in fraud on a regular basis and the SEC has done nothing. At this point I have zero faith in the markets to adhere to the law.
- parthdesai 6mo agoIs it only Musk? Pretty sure the President himself is manipulating the market
- darth_avocado 6mo agoTSLQ has been doing barely okay. The problem with investment vehicles like TSLQ which are daily shorts, is that over a period of time, it will suffer the same drawbacks as holding a short position and therefore making the timing of the position very important.
- cramsession 6mo agoCorrect, but it's up 5% this month while most things are down. It's not a good idea to hold it long term for the reasons you say.
- hypeatei 6mo agoIf you're going to gamble on $TSLA, shorting is probably the worst way to do so. It has unlimited downside (well, at least as much your broker allows before margin calling) If you want to gamble, buy put options and size according to how much money you're okay with losing (the premium is all you pay)
- rtkwe 6mo agoTrue short positions are out of reach for basically any normal investor except those with completely broken risk tolerances (selling unbacked call options), eg the degen gamblers of r/wallstreetbets.
- zeroCalories 6mo agoSilly. You should be selling off th ese trash stocks. Don't know why people keep recommending market cap weighted funds when they're being manipulated by scam artists like Elon and Trump into making the world's retirement funds into bag holders.
- seydor 6mo agoShorting requires a timeframe. When?
- loeg 6mo agoIt is a crazy meme stock, but in terms of the S&P500, it's 2000x the size of the smallest S&P500 component.
- cramsession 6mo agoIs that market cap or earnings? The market cap is the meme part. If TSLA had the P/E ratio of MSFT, shares would be worth $24.
- loeg 6mo agoMarket cap. If it had the P/E of MSFT, it would still be 140x bigger than the smallest S&P500 component.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- jordanb 6mo agoElon is working on a scam to get SpaceX into the S&P after its IPO in violation of current rules: https://www.ft.com/content/59adbe42-ca30-47f3-9cda-5415945e9368 https://www.ft.com/content/59adbe42-ca30-47f3-9cda-5415945e9...
- malfist 6mo agoNasdaq announced today that their Fast Inclusion policy as official starting May 1st. 15 days of price discovery for SpaceX instead of 1 year for inclusion into indexes. Will be one of the largest wealth transfers from common people to the wealthy since it'll exploit all passive investments to provide exit liquidity for elon and his investors.
- darth_avocado 6mo agoMarkets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. There are still plenty of people who still take everything Elon says as the truth in 2026. I know people who are otherwise very reasonable, immediately get defensive when presented with the mildest of the criticisms of Elon.
- johnnyanmac 6mo agoSinclair's quote rings especially true here. Threatens a person's money, no matter how irrational, and you'll get the most disciplined thinkers devolve into 4chan level tirades.
- tombert 6mo agoYeah, I don't understand Elon's plot armor, especially after the calling a cave diver a pedo. That's when I definitively stopped liking him, though I always thought that the Hyperloop seemed pretty dumb. I am not the first person to say this, but I guess I took a lot of what he said at face value because I don't really know anything about physics or rockets beyond a high school level. Then he started saying stuff about computers that were "slightly off" at best, and since I know a lot more about computers it made me realize he was kind of full of shit.
- steve_adams_86 6mo agoWorse yet, he doesn't seem to realize when he's full of shit. He's very confidently wrong. It makes me so curious to understand what his competencies actually are. Clearly he's not an idiot; he's got to be great at some things. I just can't tell what it would be anymore.
- tombert 6mo agoI actually think he might just be an idiot. I think a lot of people respond to people who are extremely confident, and whether or not they are "right" about anything is secondary. I mean we have a president who has almost never even completed an entire sentence, but he tells you how smart he is all the time and people just believe it.
- Bombthecat 6mo agoYou forgot spacex, which will be also added, fast track :)
- instalabsai 6mo agoI like to believe that this was the actual reason to acquire Twitter: it’s the meme engine that keeps Tesla/SpaceX valuation high.
- keeganpoppen 6mo agojust look how s&p 500 is defined. your answer is right there. there is no “does cramsession approve” proviso in there.
- ramesh31 6mo ago>It has no business being in the S&P 500 and should quite frankly be delisted S&P500 inclusion is a simple math calculation based on market cap. By definition, Tesla must be included until its value drops far enough to exclude it. That will probably never happen short of an apocalyptic event.
- loeg 6mo agoIt's not quite that simple -- there are other criteria. E.g., MSTR is not included in the index. And technically the committee overseeing it has some discretion. That said, I agree that TSLA easily meets the criteria for inclusion -- even if you assume a normal automaker P/E of ~5 instead of TSLA's meme-stock ~330.