4 ms·

Basically any computer is a router if you're brave enough. Windows PCs had (have?) that Internet connection sharing feature for a long time. It was really jus

Basically any computer is a router if you're brave enough. Windows PCs had (have?) that Internet connection sharing feature for a long time. It was really just a checkbox to enable NAT too. Sometimes I think combining a firewall/router/switch/AP/file server/etc into a device called a "router" really confuses people. Even people who should know better.

j45 7mo ago
It is much, much easier than it used to be. The documentation and videos alone available make something like this a very welcoming learning experience that anyone can complete step by step by pausing a video and replaying it.
- doubled112 7mo ago
  Like most things, really. I used to build routers from old PCs, but eventually those tiny appliances caught up with the performance/functionality I need. You can do a lot of routing on a $70 Mikrotik, although they might not be "easy".
  - j45 7mo ago
    For sure, it's a path and passage towards devices like that. Everyone has a starting point, starting with soemone has lying around is one thing.. the quicker they can get going the more they can get to leveraging the real power in most devices.
  - esseph 7mo ago
    I really want to end up with one of these for at least a few months: https://mikrotik.com/product/rds2216 https://mikrotik.com/product/rds2216
    - bombcar 7mo ago
      At $2k out the door that's way more reasonable than I thought it'd be. Too bad I can't fill it with old spinning rust.
      - a96 7mo ago
        And no (mention of) ECC.
        simoncion 7mo ago
        On printed page five of the brochure [0] it mentions Size of RAM 32 GB ECC RAM type DDR4 On the one hand, it'd be nice if that was mentioned everywhere that the RAM size was mentioned. On the other hand, perhaps ECC RAM is effectively mandatory for Enterprise equipment, so mentioning it is redundant? IDK, I don't often purchase that sort of stuff. [0] <https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/product_files/RDS2216-2XG-4S4XS-2XQ_250557.pdf https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/product_files/RDS2216-2X...>
        a96 6mo ago
        It's because it's mandatory that it should be front and center on any list of specs. But better late than never, I guess. Thanks for digging it up.
        simoncion 6mo ago
        > It's because it's mandatory that it should be front and center on any list of specs. Eh... I could go either way on that. Spec sheets and marketing copy for these things don't include the phrase "Runs on electricity!" because that property is effectively mandatory. If ECC is effectively mandatory for enterprise-grade networking gear, I can totally see not mentioning it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it's -infuriatingly- not at all mandatory for SOHO/"prosumer" gear, so it's important to mention for things you're selling in those markets.
novachen 7mo ago
the naming is part of the confusion. consumer "routers" are really NAT gateway + DHCP server + DNS cache + WiFi AP + maybe a firewall, all in one box. separating them makes each piece clearer.
- userbinator 7mo ago
  There's also a layer 2 switch connecting the pieces together.
userbinator 7mo ago
You don't even need more than one NIC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_on_a_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_on_a_stick
- namibj 7mo ago
  Iirc classic WRT-841 and similar "300Mbit WiFi" generation 4-100Mbit-ports Wi-Fi routers had the CPU attached via an on-SoC gigabit link to a vlan capable switch that has the 4 100BASE-TX ports exposed.
  - jack1243star 7mo ago
    Are there links I can read up on this? Ethernet as on-chip bus blows my mind. I guess it's cheaper than having to redesign an entire SoC, but still...
    - doubled112 7mo ago
      These SoCs are often purpose built for networking. The CPU just connects to an internal switch chip instead of an external jack. Mikrotik makes block diagrams of some of their Routerboards available. This is a hAP AC3, for example https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RBD53iG-5HacD2HnD_201031.png https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RBD53iG-5HacD2HnD_201031.p... It runs on a Qualcom IPQ4019 single-chip Wi-Fi system-on-chip (SoC)

j45 7mo ago

It is much, much easier than it used to be. The documentation and videos alone available make something like this a very welcoming learning experience that anyone can complete step by step by pausing a video and replaying it.

doubled112 7mo ago
Like most things, really. I used to build routers from old PCs, but eventually those tiny appliances caught up with the performance/functionality I need. You can do a lot of routing on a $70 Mikrotik, although they might not be "easy".
- j45 7mo ago
  For sure, it's a path and passage towards devices like that. Everyone has a starting point, starting with soemone has lying around is one thing.. the quicker they can get going the more they can get to leveraging the real power in most devices.
- esseph 7mo ago
  I really want to end up with one of these for at least a few months: https://mikrotik.com/product/rds2216 https://mikrotik.com/product/rds2216
  - bombcar 7mo ago
    At $2k out the door that's way more reasonable than I thought it'd be. Too bad I can't fill it with old spinning rust.
    - a96 7mo ago
      And no (mention of) ECC.
      - simoncion 7mo ago
        On printed page five of the brochure [0] it mentions Size of RAM 32 GB ECC RAM type DDR4 On the one hand, it'd be nice if that was mentioned everywhere that the RAM size was mentioned. On the other hand, perhaps ECC RAM is effectively mandatory for Enterprise equipment, so mentioning it is redundant? IDK, I don't often purchase that sort of stuff. [0] <https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/product_files/RDS2216-2XG-4S4XS-2XQ_250557.pdf https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/product_files/RDS2216-2X...>
        a96 6mo ago
        It's because it's mandatory that it should be front and center on any list of specs. But better late than never, I guess. Thanks for digging it up.
        simoncion 6mo ago
        > It's because it's mandatory that it should be front and center on any list of specs. Eh... I could go either way on that. Spec sheets and marketing copy for these things don't include the phrase "Runs on electricity!" because that property is effectively mandatory. If ECC is effectively mandatory for enterprise-grade networking gear, I can totally see not mentioning it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it's -infuriatingly- not at all mandatory for SOHO/"prosumer" gear, so it's important to mention for things you're selling in those markets.

novachen 7mo ago

the naming is part of the confusion. consumer "routers" are really NAT gateway + DHCP server + DNS cache + WiFi AP + maybe a firewall, all in one box. separating them makes each piece clearer.

userbinator 7mo ago
There's also a layer 2 switch connecting the pieces together.

userbinator 7mo ago

You don't even need more than one NIC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_on_a_stick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_on_a_stick

namibj 7mo ago
Iirc classic WRT-841 and similar "300Mbit WiFi" generation 4-100Mbit-ports Wi-Fi routers had the CPU attached via an on-SoC gigabit link to a vlan capable switch that has the 4 100BASE-TX ports exposed.
- jack1243star 7mo ago
  Are there links I can read up on this? Ethernet as on-chip bus blows my mind. I guess it's cheaper than having to redesign an entire SoC, but still...
  - doubled112 7mo ago
    These SoCs are often purpose built for networking. The CPU just connects to an internal switch chip instead of an external jack. Mikrotik makes block diagrams of some of their Routerboards available. This is a hAP AC3, for example https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RBD53iG-5HacD2HnD_201031.png https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/RBD53iG-5HacD2HnD_201031.p... It runs on a Qualcom IPQ4019 single-chip Wi-Fi system-on-chip (SoC)