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I love taking notes by hand for better retention, but (my) longhand is just too slow. It's also an inconvenient format for representing a hierachy or graph of c

I love taking notes by hand for better retention, but (my) longhand is just too slow. It's also an inconvenient format for representing a hierachy or graph of connections. Anyone else into what my high school biology teacher loved referring to as "pseudo-arachnomorphic diagrams" (Mind Maps[1] / Spider Diagrams)? They're still my primary paper-based realtime note taking method. They seemed to get a lot of attention a couple of decades ago, but I don't hear them mentioned much recently. Lots of online/local Mind Map tools available, but I've never really gelled with them (though you do get self-organisation of the nodes!). Once in the digital realm I'm more likely to make notes in Markdown. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map

cratermoon 7mo ago
There are ways to write that are faster and more legible. I recommend looking into the Getty-Dubay style.
- coldcity_again 7mo ago
  Thanks, though I think part of longhard feeling labourious these days is RSI sadly. I did try to correct my scrawl for effort and legibility a while ago, but it just wouldn't stick!
  - mrexroad 7mo ago
    I had pretty terrible RSI (and even more terrible handwriting) and could write much without cramping up or pain. What helped for me was teaching myself proper cursive and fountain pens. Rather than clutching a ballpoint and marking with jerky finger/wrist movements, I now use my arm for larger movements and let the pen glide. It’s helped tremendously. It’s slow going at first but keep at it. Plus fountain pens are pretty fucking cool. Also, paper matters too; but paper and notebooks are another fun rabbit hole.
    - cratermoon 6mo ago
      Ballpoint pens are the worst, especially the ubiquitous cheap ones. Gel pens are better if you're not quite ready to make the leap to fountain pens.
WhyCause 7mo ago
The slowness is a feature, not a bug. It gives your brain time to chew on it a little bit, digesting the information and storing it away instead of just copy-pasting. Speed-hacks like shorthand and stenographers' machines are for copying exactly what was said, not consuming and understanding it. I would be very surprised if there were not very old studies moldering in a paper journal somewhere investigating the information retention of secretaries / stenographers compared to "naive" note-takers.
- Zancarius 7mo ago
  I recently started journaling by hand and was somewhat frustrated with the excruciatingly slow speed versus typing. Eventually, I realized that the slowness was, as you said, a feature. It forces you to think. You have no choice but to take time with your words. Sometimes brevity is a gift (one I usually don't have). I migrated to fountain pens and haven't looked back. Partially, it's because I enjoy the experience itself as much as writing, but partially it's because they've forced me to become even more deliberate. I'd highly recommend it!
  - flkiwi 7mo ago
    Same principle applies to, e.g., Leica cameras. Yes, they're pricey (absurdly so), but the lack of features, the slow speed, and the lack of configuration contributes to me improving my photography. It doesn't make me a better photographer, but it gives me the time and space to focus on being one, rather than just firehosing my camera at whatever is in front of me. It makes my photography intentional rather than reactive.
    - SoftTalker 7mo ago
      Any old rangefinder camera will do that at a fraction of the price.
    - uxcolumbo 7mo ago
      Or get an Canon 5d MKI or MKII. Not many features and great kit and can be bought for less than $500.
helterskelter 7mo ago
You could look at an alphabetic shorthand such as Orthic: https://orthic.shorthand.fun/ https://orthic.shorthand.fun/ The learning curve is very gentle, you could learn it in a day. Honestly the hardest part is getting used to reading it fluently. You can also look into various systems of abbreviations developed for telegraph (Evans basic English code), or you could look into using Yublin, which is basically taking all 2-letter combinations and assigning the most common 676 English words to them. Personally I like the idea of Yublin, with the addition of suffixes to modify common words so the word "add" might be "ad" in Yublin, but to make it "addition" you might turn it into "adn" and to further modify it to "additionally" you could write "adnly". This way you get more words out of your limited number of bigrams instead of polluting it with a word plus all it's commonly used variations. Write that shit in Orthic and you'll be flying. Food for thought.
pch00 7mo ago
> Anyone else into what my high school biology teacher loved referring to as "pseudo-arachnomorphic diagrams" (Mind Maps[1] / Spider Diagrams)? Yes! Nearly all my notes are mind-map-ish. I’m a visual thinker/planner with ADHD and mind-map style “spatial notes” are the only ones that make sense to me when writing and reviewing later. I’ve tried a few methods of moving this process to digital over the years but nothing sticks like pen & paper.
abdullahkhalids 7mo ago
1. Obtain a good fountain pen. 2. Obtain paper and ink that works well with the pen. 3. Practice cursive handwriting. Possibly get a 2x improvement in speed.

cratermoon 7mo ago

There are ways to write that are faster and more legible. I recommend looking into the Getty-Dubay style.

coldcity_again 7mo ago
Thanks, though I think part of longhard feeling labourious these days is RSI sadly. I did try to correct my scrawl for effort and legibility a while ago, but it just wouldn't stick!
- mrexroad 7mo ago
  I had pretty terrible RSI (and even more terrible handwriting) and could write much without cramping up or pain. What helped for me was teaching myself proper cursive and fountain pens. Rather than clutching a ballpoint and marking with jerky finger/wrist movements, I now use my arm for larger movements and let the pen glide. It’s helped tremendously. It’s slow going at first but keep at it. Plus fountain pens are pretty fucking cool. Also, paper matters too; but paper and notebooks are another fun rabbit hole.
  - cratermoon 6mo ago
    Ballpoint pens are the worst, especially the ubiquitous cheap ones. Gel pens are better if you're not quite ready to make the leap to fountain pens.

WhyCause 7mo ago

The slowness is a feature, not a bug. It gives your brain time to chew on it a little bit, digesting the information and storing it away instead of just copy-pasting. Speed-hacks like shorthand and stenographers' machines are for copying exactly what was said, not consuming and understanding it. I would be very surprised if there were not very old studies moldering in a paper journal somewhere investigating the information retention of secretaries / stenographers compared to "naive" note-takers.

Zancarius 7mo ago
I recently started journaling by hand and was somewhat frustrated with the excruciatingly slow speed versus typing. Eventually, I realized that the slowness was, as you said, a feature. It forces you to think. You have no choice but to take time with your words. Sometimes brevity is a gift (one I usually don't have). I migrated to fountain pens and haven't looked back. Partially, it's because I enjoy the experience itself as much as writing, but partially it's because they've forced me to become even more deliberate. I'd highly recommend it!
- flkiwi 7mo ago
  Same principle applies to, e.g., Leica cameras. Yes, they're pricey (absurdly so), but the lack of features, the slow speed, and the lack of configuration contributes to me improving my photography. It doesn't make me a better photographer, but it gives me the time and space to focus on being one, rather than just firehosing my camera at whatever is in front of me. It makes my photography intentional rather than reactive.
  - SoftTalker 7mo ago
    Any old rangefinder camera will do that at a fraction of the price.
  - uxcolumbo 7mo ago
    Or get an Canon 5d MKI or MKII. Not many features and great kit and can be bought for less than $500.

helterskelter 7mo ago

You could look at an alphabetic shorthand such as Orthic: https://orthic.shorthand.fun/ https://orthic.shorthand.fun/ The learning curve is very gentle, you could learn it in a day. Honestly the hardest part is getting used to reading it fluently. You can also look into various systems of abbreviations developed for telegraph (Evans basic English code), or you could look into using Yublin, which is basically taking all 2-letter combinations and assigning the most common 676 English words to them. Personally I like the idea of Yublin, with the addition of suffixes to modify common words so the word "add" might be "ad" in Yublin, but to make it "addition" you might turn it into "adn" and to further modify it to "additionally" you could write "adnly". This way you get more words out of your limited number of bigrams instead of polluting it with a word plus all it's commonly used variations. Write that shit in Orthic and you'll be flying. Food for thought.

pch00 7mo ago

> Anyone else into what my high school biology teacher loved referring to as "pseudo-arachnomorphic diagrams" (Mind Maps[1] / Spider Diagrams)? Yes! Nearly all my notes are mind-map-ish. I’m a visual thinker/planner with ADHD and mind-map style “spatial notes” are the only ones that make sense to me when writing and reviewing later. I’ve tried a few methods of moving this process to digital over the years but nothing sticks like pen & paper.

abdullahkhalids 7mo ago

1. Obtain a good fountain pen. 2. Obtain paper and ink that works well with the pen. 3. Practice cursive handwriting. Possibly get a 2x improvement in speed.