3 ms·

If the wikipedia image is accurate, its technically not "displaying" the board, its just in ram. The RAM just happens to be visible. But you get into a lot of t

If the wikipedia image is accurate, its technically not "displaying" the board, its just in ram. The RAM just happens to be visible. But you get into a lot of technicalities when talking about the "first video game", so its up to interpretation. There was the "Cathode-ray tube amusement device" in 1947 that, by some interpretations could also be the "first video game" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode-ray_tube_amusement_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode-ray_tube_amusement_dev... I think it is at least safe to say that PONG isn't the first

mrob 6mo ago
I don't think it's necessary for video RAM to be separate from code RAM. The BBC Micro game "Revs" runs code from the video RAM and sets the palette to make it look like blue sky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revs_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revs_(video_game) CRT Amusement Device is IMO disqualified for not using any form of computer.
- voidUpdate 6mo ago
  The CRT Amusement Device uses a video display and has game-like elements, you could argue that makes it a "video game" (as opposed to a "computer game")
ralferoo 6mo ago
That's a pretty weird distinction to make. I remember back in the 80s writing a CGA text-mode game (they were quite in vogue at the time), and (as I assume most programmers did) I used the video memory directly as the source of truth about the current state of the level. OP's distinction about video being a raster-based signal that you feed into a regular TV-like device, rather than being vector based or hard wired lights seems sensible. As to how that video signal is generated is kind of irrelevant.
- voidUpdate 6mo ago
  The manchester mark 1 had a teleprinter as its output, and used a Williams tube as ram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube). If the image on wikipedia is accurate, the checkers game only "displayed" itself incidentally, on the Williams tube, rather than actually outputting to the teleprinter. In your game, it would be like writing the current level to internal ram, rather than to the actual video memory. The Williams tube isn't really a TV-like device. It stores data on a CRT, but that CRT isn't visible to the user in general operation, as the read plate covers the "screen". Again, "first video game" is up to a lot of interpretation. Also, saying that vector based video makes it not a video game is a little strange, given how common vector graphics were in arcades (eg Asteroids, Tempest, Missile Command) and the Vectrex
  - alnwlsn 6mo ago
    Not necessary, you can just take an additional CRT and wire it in parallel to one of the Williams tube CRTs to see what's on the screen. That's how the Manchester Baby did it (visible in the center of the image here): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Manchester_Baby_Replica.webp https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Manchest...
  - ralferoo 6mo ago
    I'm not necessarily making the point that vector graphics based games aren't video games, just arguing against the parent comment against the claim that it wasn't a video game because it was stored in RAM. I agree with the assertion that this was a video game because it was using a raster-based CRT for the display, even though the primary purpose of that display was for data storage not display.
- toast0 6mo ago
  I don't know why being vector based would disqualify this from being a video game? https://www.arcade-museum.com/Videogame/star-wars https://www.arcade-museum.com/Videogame/star-wars It's from 1983, which disqualifies it from being early, of course.

mrob 6mo ago

I don't think it's necessary for video RAM to be separate from code RAM. The BBC Micro game "Revs" runs code from the video RAM and sets the palette to make it look like blue sky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revs_(video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revs_(video_game) CRT Amusement Device is IMO disqualified for not using any form of computer.

voidUpdate 6mo ago
The CRT Amusement Device uses a video display and has game-like elements, you could argue that makes it a "video game" (as opposed to a "computer game")

ralferoo 6mo ago

That's a pretty weird distinction to make. I remember back in the 80s writing a CGA text-mode game (they were quite in vogue at the time), and (as I assume most programmers did) I used the video memory directly as the source of truth about the current state of the level. OP's distinction about video being a raster-based signal that you feed into a regular TV-like device, rather than being vector based or hard wired lights seems sensible. As to how that video signal is generated is kind of irrelevant.

voidUpdate 6mo ago
The manchester mark 1 had a teleprinter as its output, and used a Williams tube as ram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube). If the image on wikipedia is accurate, the checkers game only "displayed" itself incidentally, on the Williams tube, rather than actually outputting to the teleprinter. In your game, it would be like writing the current level to internal ram, rather than to the actual video memory. The Williams tube isn't really a TV-like device. It stores data on a CRT, but that CRT isn't visible to the user in general operation, as the read plate covers the "screen". Again, "first video game" is up to a lot of interpretation. Also, saying that vector based video makes it not a video game is a little strange, given how common vector graphics were in arcades (eg Asteroids, Tempest, Missile Command) and the Vectrex
- alnwlsn 6mo ago
  Not necessary, you can just take an additional CRT and wire it in parallel to one of the Williams tube CRTs to see what's on the screen. That's how the Manchester Baby did it (visible in the center of the image here): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Manchester_Baby_Replica.webp https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Manchest...
- ralferoo 6mo ago
  I'm not necessarily making the point that vector graphics based games aren't video games, just arguing against the parent comment against the claim that it wasn't a video game because it was stored in RAM. I agree with the assertion that this was a video game because it was using a raster-based CRT for the display, even though the primary purpose of that display was for data storage not display.
toast0 6mo ago
I don't know why being vector based would disqualify this from being a video game? https://www.arcade-museum.com/Videogame/star-wars https://www.arcade-museum.com/Videogame/star-wars It's from 1983, which disqualifies it from being early, of course.