4 ms·

Keep writing Dustin

18 points by suhail 14y ago

cantlin 14y ago
This does not share an interpretation with the "empty madness" retort - they may as well be talking about totally different posts. Doshi writes "the takeaway for me is: find the best possible things you deeply depend on in life." Clearly, mapgrep instead read the post as a celebration of materialism. The meanness of the language may have been unjustifiable, but the point made was not irrelevant. There is an argument around how we prioritise people versus things, and some will fall so far on the people side that a preoccupation with things seems almost offensive. pg asserting that the popularity of the post was "the decline of HN embodied" seemed to me equally wrong. I (a lowly newcomer) thoroughly enjoy a top-voted post that strongly contrasts the submission, especially when the pair serve to draw attention to a dichotomy. Edit: On reflection, the most interesting thing about the two texts might be that they actually seem to share a frustration with materialism. Where the author of the vitriolic response wants the notion of design quality entirely out of the equation, dcurtis liberates himself by settling it one object at a time. I see examples of both in my own life: choosing the watch or the sneakers and buying them over and over, so that I never again need to think seriously and qualitatively about watches or sneakers. And, in moments of design obsession, waking as if from a trance thinking "When was the last time I called my mum?"
hayksaakian 14y ago
It seems like this author misses the point too. At first it seems like he was trying to reshape the original posts' message into a sort of 'live the best way possible' message, but instead he turns his focus back onto material goods. "This isn’t materialism, it’s a deep consideration for the non-materialistic things that depend on the material. A lamp for reading or helping. A flatware set for eating. A backpack for hiking. A towel for traveling. These are all intellectual and spiritual pursuits that are also important." Eating is not about flatware, neither is hiking about backpacks, nor traveling about towels. Obsessing over the best backpack takes away time you could be spending actually hiking.
- spectrum 14y ago
  I disagree. There is a good reason to want 'the best' within limits (cost, availability etc.). For example, hiking with low quality shoes that give you blisters decreases your enjoyment of hiking. Hiking with shoes that fit perfectly and give comfort makes hiking much more enjoyable.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    But that's an argument for "good enough", not for "the best". At some point there's very little difference between products that are good enough. And after that point? You're into the territory of people like Best Made Company. $250 for an ax? (http://www.bestmadeco.com/products/american-felling-axe-courage http://www.bestmadeco.com/products/american-felling-axe-cour...) vs $160 (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/4-lb-Splitting-Axe-with-30-Hickory-Handle-Biber-Classic-by-Mueller-Hand-Forged-in-Austria/productinfo/367-92238/ http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/4-lb-Splitting-Axe-with...) vs $35 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seymour-AX-3-3-5-Lb-36-Single-Bit-Michigan-Axe-Hickory-Handle-/200842153015?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D3314142887569097382%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D300737753115%26 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seymour-AX-3-3-5-Lb-36-Single-Bit-Mi...)
- ocirion 14y ago
  You need a backpack to hike. You could hike without one but that would involve carrying everything in your hands. Backpacks are the evolution of ergonomic design to make carrying items on long journeys comfortable. You need a towel if you travel. You could drip dry after each shower or decide not to at all but that introduces another set of hygenic and time-wasting problems. You need utensils to eat. You could use your hands, again not paying attention to hygiene, or you could be civilized and use a knife and fork. Researching and buying the best ensures you should only buy once. It's appreciating that someone, or group of people, have spent months, even years paying attention to every detail in designing something that serves an important purpose.
  - hayksaakian 14y ago
nadam 14y ago
From dustin's article: "Reasonable people would probably not spend the time to read a book about the history of flatware, buy twenty sets, and test the feeling of each metal utensil against their teeth. That sounds completely insane. But who cares about reasonable people?" Out of curiositiy: how much money 20 sets of designer flaware cost? Because if it is something around the price I suspect, then dustin's original article is very close to saying: 'I am rich, and you should be too'. You know where I live ... I've just sold some of the used clothes of my 1 year old child to a middle-class woman... Even buying designer stuff is about money, not to mention buying 20 sets just to try out... Fortunatelly there are obscure hobbies for unreasonable people which do not take money. (Like learning set theory just for the fun (or insight) of it.) tl;dr: dustin's original article is a triviality: 1. if you have enough money 2. you have enough time 3. your obsession is buying very well designed things then go for it. But it is a triviality that most people lack (1.) even if they do not lack (2.) and (3.) (And because of lacking (1.) many people lack (2.) and maybe even partially (3.) (having bigger problems, they do not think about these things that much))
nickporter 14y ago
Who's Dustin? Link anyone?
- denzil_correa 14y ago
  Here's the link to Dustin's previous article and a link to a discussion which took HN ablaze. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470
maccman 14y ago
Interesting that engineers spend an inordinate amount of time researching the best hardware and software, yet can't understand someone who extends that search into the material world. A search for perfection is admirable in my opinion.
swah 14y ago
Like Dustin is going to stop writing because random folk criticized him on the internet... (I side w/ random folk in this one though)

18 points by suhail 14y ago

This does not share an interpretation with the "empty madness" retort - they may as well be talking about totally different posts. Doshi writes "the takeaway for me is: find the best possible things you deeply depend on in life." Clearly, mapgrep instead read the post as a celebration of materialism. The meanness of the language may have been unjustifiable, but the point made was not irrelevant. There is an argument around how we prioritise people versus things, and some will fall so far on the people side that a preoccupation with things seems almost offensive. pg asserting that the popularity of the post was "the decline of HN embodied" seemed to me equally wrong. I (a lowly newcomer) thoroughly enjoy a top-voted post that strongly contrasts the submission, especially when the pair serve to draw attention to a dichotomy. Edit: On reflection, the most interesting thing about the two texts might be that they actually seem to share a frustration with materialism. Where the author of the vitriolic response wants the notion of design quality entirely out of the equation, dcurtis liberates himself by settling it one object at a time. I see examples of both in my own life: choosing the watch or the sneakers and buying them over and over, so that I never again need to think seriously and qualitatively about watches or sneakers. And, in moments of design obsession, waking as if from a trance thinking "When was the last time I called my mum?"

hayksaakian 14y ago

It seems like this author misses the point too. At first it seems like he was trying to reshape the original posts' message into a sort of 'live the best way possible' message, but instead he turns his focus back onto material goods. "This isn’t materialism, it’s a deep consideration for the non-materialistic things that depend on the material. A lamp for reading or helping. A flatware set for eating. A backpack for hiking. A towel for traveling. These are all intellectual and spiritual pursuits that are also important." Eating is not about flatware, neither is hiking about backpacks, nor traveling about towels. Obsessing over the best backpack takes away time you could be spending actually hiking.

spectrum 14y ago
I disagree. There is a good reason to want 'the best' within limits (cost, availability etc.). For example, hiking with low quality shoes that give you blisters decreases your enjoyment of hiking. Hiking with shoes that fit perfectly and give comfort makes hiking much more enjoyable.
- DanBC 14y ago
  But that's an argument for "good enough", not for "the best". At some point there's very little difference between products that are good enough. And after that point? You're into the territory of people like Best Made Company. $250 for an ax? (http://www.bestmadeco.com/products/american-felling-axe-courage http://www.bestmadeco.com/products/american-felling-axe-cour...) vs $160 (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/4-lb-Splitting-Axe-with-30-Hickory-Handle-Biber-Classic-by-Mueller-Hand-Forged-in-Austria/productinfo/367-92238/ http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/4-lb-Splitting-Axe-with...) vs $35 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seymour-AX-3-3-5-Lb-36-Single-Bit-Michigan-Axe-Hickory-Handle-/200842153015?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D3314142887569097382%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D300737753115%26 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seymour-AX-3-3-5-Lb-36-Single-Bit-Mi...)
ocirion 14y ago
You need a backpack to hike. You could hike without one but that would involve carrying everything in your hands. Backpacks are the evolution of ergonomic design to make carrying items on long journeys comfortable. You need a towel if you travel. You could drip dry after each shower or decide not to at all but that introduces another set of hygenic and time-wasting problems. You need utensils to eat. You could use your hands, again not paying attention to hygiene, or you could be civilized and use a knife and fork. Researching and buying the best ensures you should only buy once. It's appreciating that someone, or group of people, have spent months, even years paying attention to every detail in designing something that serves an important purpose.
- hayksaakian 14y ago

nadam 14y ago

From dustin's article: "Reasonable people would probably not spend the time to read a book about the history of flatware, buy twenty sets, and test the feeling of each metal utensil against their teeth. That sounds completely insane. But who cares about reasonable people?" Out of curiositiy: how much money 20 sets of designer flaware cost? Because if it is something around the price I suspect, then dustin's original article is very close to saying: 'I am rich, and you should be too'. You know where I live ... I've just sold some of the used clothes of my 1 year old child to a middle-class woman... Even buying designer stuff is about money, not to mention buying 20 sets just to try out... Fortunatelly there are obscure hobbies for unreasonable people which do not take money. (Like learning set theory just for the fun (or insight) of it.) tl;dr: dustin's original article is a triviality: 1. if you have enough money 2. you have enough time 3. your obsession is buying very well designed things then go for it. But it is a triviality that most people lack (1.) even if they do not lack (2.) and (3.) (And because of lacking (1.) many people lack (2.) and maybe even partially (3.) (having bigger problems, they do not think about these things that much))

nickporter 14y ago

Who's Dustin? Link anyone?

denzil_correa 14y ago
Here's the link to Dustin's previous article and a link to a discussion which took HN ablaze. - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470

maccman 14y ago

Interesting that engineers spend an inordinate amount of time researching the best hardware and software, yet can't understand someone who extends that search into the material world. A search for perfection is admirable in my opinion.

swah 14y ago

Like Dustin is going to stop writing because random folk criticized him on the internet... (I side w/ random folk in this one though)