4 ms·

When one party will violate every norm and law to the greatest extent that they can get away with it, it's pretty much impossible to compete with them. I want g

When one party will violate every norm and law to the greatest extent that they can get away with it, it's pretty much impossible to compete with them. I want good things for people. I can't compete with fascists because they will cheat and lie and employ violence. My positive intent is almost impossible to out thwart their dirty deeds if they are willing to break laws / change laws and I won't.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
throwaway85825 7mo ago
There's only one party and it's color is green. Donors know red or blue doesn't matter, so they give to both.
- gcanyon 7mo ago
  That's just an unreal characterization that plays into the hands of the "red" team. One side has put up presidents and congressional leadership that worked (mostly, I'm not saying they're perfect) within the traditional framework of the system. The other has put up a president who literally does not understand the meaning of the word "no," expects that everyone will let him do pretty much anything he wants, and a congress that agrees with him. Notably, that side was different in 2000, 1988, 1980, etc. -- not perfect by any stretch, but not this. The difference matters.
- hypeatei 7mo ago
  Do you want another authoritarian, corrupt, cult of personality leader like Trump? Proclaiming "both sides" and ignoring nuance like you're doing is how no one gets held accountable for the real harms that are taking place. Please stop holding water for the MAGAs/GOP.
  - throwaway85825 7mo ago
    America has had even more corrupt/authoritarian/cult of personality leaders than Trump. They were younger and their brains still worked so they did way more damage than trump too. Most Americans just don't learn much history so can't compare.
    - hypeatei 7mo ago
      > America has had even more corrupt/authoritarian/cult of personality leaders than Trump. Like who?
      - guzfip 7mo ago
        Andrew Jackson to this day is a darling among conservatives in America.
southerntofu 7mo ago
Assuming you're from the USA, your two main parties are exactly like that. The appearances have changed, but Obama drone-assassinating random children on the other side of the world was not much better than what Trump is doing. Not defending Trump, to be clear, just saying US imperialism and fascism has much deeper roots and that removing Trump is not going to fix any issues the rest of the world has with the USA.
- actionfromafar 7mo ago
  It was not better, it was less. US imperialism has deep roots, yes, but a large chunk of the world who would tolerate a moderate level of it, don't tolerate this level.
  - nandomrumber 7mo ago
    I don’t see any not tolerating it in practice. A lot of invective, but nothing in practice that really indicates not tolerating.
    - actionfromafar 7mo ago
      I hear rumblings about foreign companies disconnecting from American services and products. You don't turn large ships on a dime, but they are turning.
  - southerntofu 7mo ago
    I don't think it was less, though only future historians will come up with actual numbers. It was less public, though. Most of the world never tolerated it. Even when western governments tolerated it, the population did not; see also the huge worldwide demonstrations against the Iraq war. I think the difference in perception is because the european oligarchy is now being effectively treated as was previously the rest of the world, so they're now taking a stance because they feel threatened, whereas they previously saw themselves as aligned with the US government no matter what.
- gcanyon 7mo ago
raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
It amazes me that so many people blame the politicians and not the people who elected them.
- frantathefranta 7mo ago
  Blaming voters for being stupid is not widely accepted yet.
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    The voters aren’t stupid. They are actively malignant and cheer what the administration is doing.
    - mrguyorama 7mo ago
      Okay but what solution lies down that road? That's the problem. People don't want to blame the voters because there's no solution. We are grasping for something that is possible to fix that isn't just "Somehow americans are especially bad at doing very basic things for no reason"
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Well, I personally am making the “Ben Kenobi” choice. I’m hoping to leave the US and retire and die and make it the next generation’s problem. I’ve done my part, I have voted for “progressive”/safety net policies and the US has gone in the opposite direction. This isn’t some shrill unthought out plan. I’m actually in the country now I plan to retire to for six weeks and I’m coming back for a month in the summer, part of the ex-pat community and meeting people, my wife and I have been learning Spanish and I speak it okay and I know the processes for establishing residency here I’m over dealing with the American people. As a minority, I find the entire attitude outside of the US refreshing even as the only Black couple in our expat group. For reference, my still living parents grew up in the segregated South.
      - 1718627440 7mo ago

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

throwaway85825 7mo ago

There's only one party and it's color is green. Donors know red or blue doesn't matter, so they give to both.

gcanyon 7mo ago
That's just an unreal characterization that plays into the hands of the "red" team. One side has put up presidents and congressional leadership that worked (mostly, I'm not saying they're perfect) within the traditional framework of the system. The other has put up a president who literally does not understand the meaning of the word "no," expects that everyone will let him do pretty much anything he wants, and a congress that agrees with him. Notably, that side was different in 2000, 1988, 1980, etc. -- not perfect by any stretch, but not this. The difference matters.
hypeatei 7mo ago
Do you want another authoritarian, corrupt, cult of personality leader like Trump? Proclaiming "both sides" and ignoring nuance like you're doing is how no one gets held accountable for the real harms that are taking place. Please stop holding water for the MAGAs/GOP.
- throwaway85825 7mo ago
  America has had even more corrupt/authoritarian/cult of personality leaders than Trump. They were younger and their brains still worked so they did way more damage than trump too. Most Americans just don't learn much history so can't compare.
  - hypeatei 7mo ago
    > America has had even more corrupt/authoritarian/cult of personality leaders than Trump. Like who?
    - guzfip 7mo ago
      Andrew Jackson to this day is a darling among conservatives in America.

southerntofu 7mo ago

Assuming you're from the USA, your two main parties are exactly like that. The appearances have changed, but Obama drone-assassinating random children on the other side of the world was not much better than what Trump is doing. Not defending Trump, to be clear, just saying US imperialism and fascism has much deeper roots and that removing Trump is not going to fix any issues the rest of the world has with the USA.

actionfromafar 7mo ago
It was not better, it was less. US imperialism has deep roots, yes, but a large chunk of the world who would tolerate a moderate level of it, don't tolerate this level.
- nandomrumber 7mo ago
  I don’t see any not tolerating it in practice. A lot of invective, but nothing in practice that really indicates not tolerating.
  - actionfromafar 7mo ago
    I hear rumblings about foreign companies disconnecting from American services and products. You don't turn large ships on a dime, but they are turning.
- southerntofu 7mo ago
  I don't think it was less, though only future historians will come up with actual numbers. It was less public, though. Most of the world never tolerated it. Even when western governments tolerated it, the population did not; see also the huge worldwide demonstrations against the Iraq war. I think the difference in perception is because the european oligarchy is now being effectively treated as was previously the rest of the world, so they're now taking a stance because they feel threatened, whereas they previously saw themselves as aligned with the US government no matter what.
gcanyon 7mo ago

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

It amazes me that so many people blame the politicians and not the people who elected them.

frantathefranta 7mo ago
Blaming voters for being stupid is not widely accepted yet.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  The voters aren’t stupid. They are actively malignant and cheer what the administration is doing.
  - mrguyorama 7mo ago
    Okay but what solution lies down that road? That's the problem. People don't want to blame the voters because there's no solution. We are grasping for something that is possible to fix that isn't just "Somehow americans are especially bad at doing very basic things for no reason"
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      Well, I personally am making the “Ben Kenobi” choice. I’m hoping to leave the US and retire and die and make it the next generation’s problem. I’ve done my part, I have voted for “progressive”/safety net policies and the US has gone in the opposite direction. This isn’t some shrill unthought out plan. I’m actually in the country now I plan to retire to for six weeks and I’m coming back for a month in the summer, part of the ex-pat community and meeting people, my wife and I have been learning Spanish and I speak it okay and I know the processes for establishing residency here I’m over dealing with the American people. As a minority, I find the entire attitude outside of the US refreshing even as the only Black couple in our expat group. For reference, my still living parents grew up in the segregated South.
    - 1718627440 7mo ago