4 ms·

> If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework But that means Windows or Linux, not macOS. There's serious tr

by radley 6mo ago

> If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework But that means Windows or Linux, not macOS. There's serious trade-offs that you're dismissing because you personally don't need macOS, but that's not the case for everyone. #hn-bingo

ThePowerOfFuet 6mo ago
macOS has slid a long way down the quality ladder over the past ten years.
- AussieWog93 6mo ago
  In what way? Tahoe's UI SNAFU aside, it seems like it's basically just a more polished version of the older macOS versions from a decade ago.
  - vintagedave 6mo ago
    I run into bugs every day. It wakes, and has a black screen not wallpaper. Change spaces and the focus is wrong for half a second. Login screen is a pain because it collapses all users together. Notifications don’t scroll if they stop scrolling when the cursor is over a gap between them. Something on the system constantly eats disk space, and I think it’s the system updates. If I dock two apps in one space, sometimes one is black. If I zoom out to the Spaces overview it shows fine in the preview though. In the Terminal if I close a tab it can focus an entirely different window. I could go on for hours. It’s a buggy mess these days and I miss Lion and Snow Leopard desperately.
    - nine_k 6mo ago
      Unless these problems only started after an upgrade to Tahoe, I would strongly suspect defective hardware in your case.
      - leptons 6mo ago
        Nothing mentioned in the previous comment is indicative of a hardware problem. If you think I'm wrong, please describe a plausible mechanism to cause any of the problems described above. They all are plausibly software bugs. I mean, Apple hardware is not really any better than any other piece of fallible hardware, and their OS has been a buggy mess since Apple DOS. Most pieces of software as large as an OS are buggy in many ways, and Apple has not been proven to be the exception.
      - vintagedave 6mo ago
        Yes, these got a lot worse after Tahoe. The past few versions have all had issues on multiple machines. None of this sounds like a hardware error. Something like notification scrolling is simple bad programming and bad QA. You scroll the list of them, but when the mouse cursor ends up on a gap between them, the new scroll event doesn't apply. They're all individual even though shown together. Or a black screen on wake - that has the mouse cursor and login prompt, it just sometimes doesn't load the wallpaper or does it slowly. Not hardware - just something buggy. It's unbelievable when I compare to Leopard or whichever version it was introduced the rotating 'cube' of login screens, which always had wallpaper and loaded fast. Here we are fifteen years later with incredibly better hardware and the thing lags. Same for the rest.
  - jorvi 6mo ago
    For all its faults I do still like modern macOS, but it is a far cry from the beauty that was Mac OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).
  - FabHK 6mo ago
    Fast user switching turned into excruciatingly slow user switching.
  - throwaway85825 6mo ago
    In the java triggers a crash in apples IO library and they wont fix it way.
    - saagarjha 6mo ago
      What's the crash?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6mo ago
    1: https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-catalina-are-so-buggy/ https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-ca... 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43243075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43243075
- lowbloodsugar 6mo ago
  Sure, but relative to windows…
- radley 6mo ago
  Oh, I completely agree. But they can get away with it because we depend on the platform more than the individual apps. And yes, Tahoe is shiny hot garbage piled on top of so much broken software, just to push an effect trick. I'm not sure how I feel developing with SwiftUI when Apple clearly can't make it work for their own apps.
  - nottorp 6mo ago
    > we depend on the platform more than the individual apps The only way you actually depend on the platform is if you do Mac OS / iOS development. However, I happen to work on a project that requires both Windows and Linux, so I get reminders every day of why I should stay on Mac OS as desktop. Caveat 1: no, I'm not upgrading to Tahoe or iOS 26. Caveat 2: I wouldn't dream of running a server on anything but Linux. Desktops with a GUI though... The problem that fucks us over is that Mac OS only has to be better than the competition.
    - agarmash 6mo ago
      With all the valid reasons not to upgrade to iOS 26, here's one strongly suggesting doing so: https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/threat-intelligence/darksword-ios-exploit-chain https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/threat-intelligence/dar...
      - nottorp 6mo ago
        That only reinforces Apple being assholes. They are perfectly capable of delivering security updates to ios 18, they just choose to not do that for phones that can run 26. By the way does that mean you can root a phone that's on iOS 18.6? :)
    - cpt_sobel 6mo ago
      > The problem that fucks us over is that Mac OS only has to be better than the competition. I'm with you here, but I'm having a _much_ better time on my Linux machines (KDE and Cinnamon Mint) than on my (unbelievably-powerful-but-for-what) M4 Max MBP. It's so much cleaner, even without having upgraded to Tahoe, and imagine that I don't even like tinkering that much, it just works.

by radley 6mo ago

ThePowerOfFuet 6mo ago

macOS has slid a long way down the quality ladder over the past ten years.

AussieWog93 6mo ago
In what way? Tahoe's UI SNAFU aside, it seems like it's basically just a more polished version of the older macOS versions from a decade ago.
- vintagedave 6mo ago
  I run into bugs every day. It wakes, and has a black screen not wallpaper. Change spaces and the focus is wrong for half a second. Login screen is a pain because it collapses all users together. Notifications don’t scroll if they stop scrolling when the cursor is over a gap between them. Something on the system constantly eats disk space, and I think it’s the system updates. If I dock two apps in one space, sometimes one is black. If I zoom out to the Spaces overview it shows fine in the preview though. In the Terminal if I close a tab it can focus an entirely different window. I could go on for hours. It’s a buggy mess these days and I miss Lion and Snow Leopard desperately.
  - nine_k 6mo ago
    Unless these problems only started after an upgrade to Tahoe, I would strongly suspect defective hardware in your case.
    - leptons 6mo ago
      Nothing mentioned in the previous comment is indicative of a hardware problem. If you think I'm wrong, please describe a plausible mechanism to cause any of the problems described above. They all are plausibly software bugs. I mean, Apple hardware is not really any better than any other piece of fallible hardware, and their OS has been a buggy mess since Apple DOS. Most pieces of software as large as an OS are buggy in many ways, and Apple has not been proven to be the exception.
    - vintagedave 6mo ago
      Yes, these got a lot worse after Tahoe. The past few versions have all had issues on multiple machines. None of this sounds like a hardware error. Something like notification scrolling is simple bad programming and bad QA. You scroll the list of them, but when the mouse cursor ends up on a gap between them, the new scroll event doesn't apply. They're all individual even though shown together. Or a black screen on wake - that has the mouse cursor and login prompt, it just sometimes doesn't load the wallpaper or does it slowly. Not hardware - just something buggy. It's unbelievable when I compare to Leopard or whichever version it was introduced the rotating 'cube' of login screens, which always had wallpaper and loaded fast. Here we are fifteen years later with incredibly better hardware and the thing lags. Same for the rest.
- jorvi 6mo ago
  For all its faults I do still like modern macOS, but it is a far cry from the beauty that was Mac OS X 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).
- FabHK 6mo ago
  Fast user switching turned into excruciatingly slow user switching.
- throwaway85825 6mo ago
  In the java triggers a crash in apples IO library and they wont fix it way.
  - saagarjha 6mo ago
    What's the crash?
- ThePowerOfFuet 6mo ago
  1: https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-catalina-are-so-buggy/ https://tidbits.com/2019/10/21/six-reasons-why-ios-13-and-ca... 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43243075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43243075
lowbloodsugar 6mo ago
Sure, but relative to windows…
radley 6mo ago
Oh, I completely agree. But they can get away with it because we depend on the platform more than the individual apps. And yes, Tahoe is shiny hot garbage piled on top of so much broken software, just to push an effect trick. I'm not sure how I feel developing with SwiftUI when Apple clearly can't make it work for their own apps.
- nottorp 6mo ago
  > we depend on the platform more than the individual apps The only way you actually depend on the platform is if you do Mac OS / iOS development. However, I happen to work on a project that requires both Windows and Linux, so I get reminders every day of why I should stay on Mac OS as desktop. Caveat 1: no, I'm not upgrading to Tahoe or iOS 26. Caveat 2: I wouldn't dream of running a server on anything but Linux. Desktops with a GUI though... The problem that fucks us over is that Mac OS only has to be better than the competition.
  - agarmash 6mo ago
    With all the valid reasons not to upgrade to iOS 26, here's one strongly suggesting doing so: https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/threat-intelligence/darksword-ios-exploit-chain https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/threat-intelligence/dar...
    - nottorp 6mo ago
      That only reinforces Apple being assholes. They are perfectly capable of delivering security updates to ios 18, they just choose to not do that for phones that can run 26. By the way does that mean you can root a phone that's on iOS 18.6? :)
  - cpt_sobel 6mo ago
    > The problem that fucks us over is that Mac OS only has to be better than the competition. I'm with you here, but I'm having a _much_ better time on my Linux machines (KDE and Cinnamon Mint) than on my (unbelievably-powerful-but-for-what) M4 Max MBP. It's so much cleaner, even without having upgraded to Tahoe, and imagine that I don't even like tinkering that much, it just works.