9 ms·

It's a very small concession. The high initial friction still means when someone comes to me with a problem and I tell them the solution is in F-Droid, they hav

by Zak 7mo ago

It's a very small concession. The high initial friction still means when someone comes to me with a problem and I tell them the solution is in F-Droid, they have to wait a day. Most give up and pick a different, less trustworthy solution from Google Play.

sunaookami 7mo ago
You can bypass the wait time with adb install at least.
- NotPractical 7mo ago
  From the article: > While sadly, it doesn’t look like there will be any ADB command you can send to your phone to make it immediately jump to the end of that 24-hour delay There's also no evidence that adb-sideloaded app stores will be able to skip PackageInstaller's developer verification enforcement, so no, you will have to wait 24 hours to install F-Droid and actually use it.
andrewaylett 7mo ago
Given the Epic settlement means Google is allowing alternate app stores, and also the delay only applies for unregistered developers, I'm not certain it won't actually get easier to get folk set up on F-Droid. It still remains to be seen what the actual requirements are, and even if F-Droid could become "approved" that doesn't mean they want to. Time will tell.
- rockskon 7mo ago
  Why the hell should we "mother may I" with Google for running apps on our own phones if it isn't sourced from the Play Store? The "security" rationale is horseshit given just how much malware is readily download able on the Play Store. Google never cleans its own house before going after others.
  - hparadiz 7mo ago
    Don't you know? If one elderly person gets scammed we all deserve to be infantilized.
    - RedComet 7mo ago
      Wouldn't it be something if, given all the surveillance already in place, law enforcement punished the scammers instead of the innocent?
      - Ms-J 7mo ago
        But then how would they police what you install? Maybe you have the criminal idea of installing an adblocker, for example. That is not allowed since corporations need to make money. The government and ad networks need to track you for your benefit. Ads are needed before listening to each minute of a song. You must submit to crpyto miners running in the background from the ads, increasing your electricity bill and pollution. Only USA sanctioned and approved ads are allowed, also. We wouldn't want you seeing an ad from a competing entity, right? If you install an ablocker, you are a terrorist and broke 324582 American laws.
      - miki123211 7mo ago
        The scammers are often in a very different country than the victim. Finding the scammer is only 50% of the work, the other 50% is diplomacy and hoping the other side is willing to extradite. This is not made easier if the police force in the scammer's country is extremely corrupt. This is why those scams so often rely on gift cards (or sometimes on cash which a local mule converts to crypto).
        cute_boi 7mo ago
        Many banking scams involve fake checks and deposits into other accounts, but I don’t see the government or banks taking active steps to stop them.
        gzread 7mo ago
- singpolyma3 7mo ago
  "only applies for unregistered developers" but remember the whole point is to allow Google to pull your "registered developer" status on a whim. Something they've shown over and over again they cannot be trusted with
  - gzread 7mo ago
    But if there's a court order saying Epic and F-Droid have to be registered developers, they can go to jail for doing that.
    - singpolyma3 7mo ago
      Sure. But there isn't.
danpalmer 7mo ago
I'm biased, but I don't think less trustworthy is a fair assessment. I think you can suggest that open source software provides a different trust model than closed source and distributed by Play, but to conclude it's less trustworthy is a real stretch.
- malicka 7mo ago
  The vast majority of software on Google Play is absolute spyware-laden slop. There are turstworthy apps, sure, but they are drops in an ocean. F-Droid’s trustworthy-to-ad-ridden-slop ratio is pretty much definitionally lower than Google’s, by virtue of it being actually curated. That everything on it is libre and they are working hard on reproducible builds just makes it all the better.
  - danpalmer 7mo ago
    This is a bunch of opinion though. I'm not saying I disagree, but I do think it's bad faith to state as fact what is opinion. Is Play a "walled garden" or is it not curated? It can't be both depending on what suits the argument. You may disagree with the policies, but suggesting there are no policies in favour user privacy is just false. You may think they aren't enforced sufficiently, but again this is opinion. The policies are there. F-Droid has the benefit that it essentially doesn't have to deal with malicious actors. It's very easy to have a high quality library when there are no malicious actors.
    - gzread 7mo ago
      It can be both - a walled garden full of malware, that rejects many apps which are not malware.
      - danpalmer 7mo ago
        Sure but it's very obviously not that, so we're back to opinion and bad faith arguments.
malicka 7mo ago
Incredibly small concession that doesn’t warrant this article’s absolutely insane framing: “Even less of a problem than we thought,” “very, very good news,” “already sounded perfectly manageable.” The author is so giddy to defend this monopolistic restriction on Google’s part. Hackers can use F-Droid without annoyance, but this really does kill any chance at normies using it. They absolutely will use the worst spyware on Google Play instead, and the author seemingly loves it.
- matheusmoreira 7mo ago
  I've given up on getting normies to care. So long as we can use these things on our own terms, it's fine.
  - rolandog 7mo ago
    "On our own terms", as long as it's approved by Google,.. for now. Surely we bear no resemblance to frogs in warming water, and we do not find ourselves praying that the deal is not further altered.
thoiweurewrwe 7mo ago
The rationale behind this move makes no sense either - most of the scams happen via some instruction to install Anydesk or some such remote-support software, not some shady apkg downloaded from some third party website. Seems like a move to get around the Epic Games ruling (and assorted rumbles from countries like India).
toast0 7mo ago
Do you have to wait a day, or do you have to set your clock forward a day?
- Dwedit 7mo ago
  Cell phones know what time it really is.
tasuki 7mo ago
> have to wait a day The horrors!
Sophira 7mo ago
Not to mention that the "concession", such that it is, will presumably only work if you sign into a Google account. Presumably, this will require that you have Google Play Services installed. Of course, many people who want to de-Google their phones won't want to do either. This is an attack on people who want to keep their lives separate from Google.

by Zak 7mo ago

sunaookami 7mo ago

You can bypass the wait time with adb install at least.

NotPractical 7mo ago
From the article: > While sadly, it doesn’t look like there will be any ADB command you can send to your phone to make it immediately jump to the end of that 24-hour delay There's also no evidence that adb-sideloaded app stores will be able to skip PackageInstaller's developer verification enforcement, so no, you will have to wait 24 hours to install F-Droid and actually use it.

andrewaylett 7mo ago

Given the Epic settlement means Google is allowing alternate app stores, and also the delay only applies for unregistered developers, I'm not certain it won't actually get easier to get folk set up on F-Droid. It still remains to be seen what the actual requirements are, and even if F-Droid could become "approved" that doesn't mean they want to. Time will tell.

rockskon 7mo ago
Why the hell should we "mother may I" with Google for running apps on our own phones if it isn't sourced from the Play Store? The "security" rationale is horseshit given just how much malware is readily download able on the Play Store. Google never cleans its own house before going after others.
- hparadiz 7mo ago
  Don't you know? If one elderly person gets scammed we all deserve to be infantilized.
  - RedComet 7mo ago
    Wouldn't it be something if, given all the surveillance already in place, law enforcement punished the scammers instead of the innocent?
    - Ms-J 7mo ago
      But then how would they police what you install? Maybe you have the criminal idea of installing an adblocker, for example. That is not allowed since corporations need to make money. The government and ad networks need to track you for your benefit. Ads are needed before listening to each minute of a song. You must submit to crpyto miners running in the background from the ads, increasing your electricity bill and pollution. Only USA sanctioned and approved ads are allowed, also. We wouldn't want you seeing an ad from a competing entity, right? If you install an ablocker, you are a terrorist and broke 324582 American laws.
    - miki123211 7mo ago
      The scammers are often in a very different country than the victim. Finding the scammer is only 50% of the work, the other 50% is diplomacy and hoping the other side is willing to extradite. This is not made easier if the police force in the scammer's country is extremely corrupt. This is why those scams so often rely on gift cards (or sometimes on cash which a local mule converts to crypto).
      - cute_boi 7mo ago
        Many banking scams involve fake checks and deposits into other accounts, but I don’t see the government or banks taking active steps to stop them.
      - gzread 7mo ago
singpolyma3 7mo ago
"only applies for unregistered developers" but remember the whole point is to allow Google to pull your "registered developer" status on a whim. Something they've shown over and over again they cannot be trusted with
- gzread 7mo ago
  But if there's a court order saying Epic and F-Droid have to be registered developers, they can go to jail for doing that.
  - singpolyma3 7mo ago
    Sure. But there isn't.

danpalmer 7mo ago

I'm biased, but I don't think less trustworthy is a fair assessment. I think you can suggest that open source software provides a different trust model than closed source and distributed by Play, but to conclude it's less trustworthy is a real stretch.

malicka 7mo ago
The vast majority of software on Google Play is absolute spyware-laden slop. There are turstworthy apps, sure, but they are drops in an ocean. F-Droid’s trustworthy-to-ad-ridden-slop ratio is pretty much definitionally lower than Google’s, by virtue of it being actually curated. That everything on it is libre and they are working hard on reproducible builds just makes it all the better.
- danpalmer 7mo ago
  This is a bunch of opinion though. I'm not saying I disagree, but I do think it's bad faith to state as fact what is opinion. Is Play a "walled garden" or is it not curated? It can't be both depending on what suits the argument. You may disagree with the policies, but suggesting there are no policies in favour user privacy is just false. You may think they aren't enforced sufficiently, but again this is opinion. The policies are there. F-Droid has the benefit that it essentially doesn't have to deal with malicious actors. It's very easy to have a high quality library when there are no malicious actors.
  - gzread 7mo ago
    It can be both - a walled garden full of malware, that rejects many apps which are not malware.
    - danpalmer 7mo ago
      Sure but it's very obviously not that, so we're back to opinion and bad faith arguments.

malicka 7mo ago

Incredibly small concession that doesn’t warrant this article’s absolutely insane framing: “Even less of a problem than we thought,” “very, very good news,” “already sounded perfectly manageable.” The author is so giddy to defend this monopolistic restriction on Google’s part. Hackers can use F-Droid without annoyance, but this really does kill any chance at normies using it. They absolutely will use the worst spyware on Google Play instead, and the author seemingly loves it.

matheusmoreira 7mo ago
I've given up on getting normies to care. So long as we can use these things on our own terms, it's fine.
- rolandog 7mo ago
  "On our own terms", as long as it's approved by Google,.. for now. Surely we bear no resemblance to frogs in warming water, and we do not find ourselves praying that the deal is not further altered.

thoiweurewrwe 7mo ago

The rationale behind this move makes no sense either - most of the scams happen via some instruction to install Anydesk or some such remote-support software, not some shady apkg downloaded from some third party website. Seems like a move to get around the Epic Games ruling (and assorted rumbles from countries like India).

toast0 7mo ago

Do you have to wait a day, or do you have to set your clock forward a day?

Dwedit 7mo ago
Cell phones know what time it really is.

tasuki 7mo ago

> have to wait a day The horrors!

Sophira 7mo ago

Not to mention that the "concession", such that it is, will presumably only work if you sign into a Google account. Presumably, this will require that you have Google Play Services installed. Of course, many people who want to de-Google their phones won't want to do either. This is an attack on people who want to keep their lives separate from Google.