4 ms·

I would be very careful doing this

potatoskins 7mo ago
You always have to be careful with LLMs, but to be fair, I felt like Claude is such a good therapist, at least it is good to start with if you want to unpack yourself. I have been to 3 short human therapist sessions in my life, and I only felt some kind of genuine self-improvement and progress with Claude.
- QuiDortDine 7mo ago
  And how do you draw the line between feeling progress and actually making progress?
  - layer8 7mo ago
    The same way you distinguish between feeling like having a problem and actually having a problem.
    - Forgeties79 7mo ago
      This is needlessly flippant and not really the same thing. Determining progress in a therapy setting is usually a collaborative effort between the therapist and the client. An LLM is not a reliable agent to make that determination.
      - layer8 7mo ago
        I didn’t claim that an LLM is that, and I fully agree that it is not. I’m saying that one is inherently one’s own judge of whether one has a problem. You go to a therapist when you feel you have a problem that warrants it. You stop going when you feel you don’t have it anymore. And OP is very likely assessing their progress in the same way. I wasn’t being flippant if the parent was asking a genuine question.
        Forgeties79 7mo ago
        > I’m saying that one is inherently one’s own judge of whether one has a problem. You go to a therapist when you feel you have a problem that warrants it That is for certain types of therapy/clinical care. It is not always - and often isn’t - the case. Plenty of diagnoses and care protocols are not a matter of opinion or based on “you feeling there’s an issue” or deciding on your own there is no longer an issue.
      - logifail 7mo ago
        > Determining progress in a therapy setting is usually a collaborative effort between the therapist and the client. An LLM is not a reliable agent to make that determination Can anyone describe how to determine how a (professional, human) therapist is "a reliable agent" to make such a determination?
        Forgeties79 7mo ago
        If you want to call into question the entire field of behavioral health and the training that is involved then that is fine, but if that’s how you feel then this entire discussion is really about something different and I can’t bridge the gap here.
      - mlrtime 7mo ago
        The thing they have in common is that they will both go forever.... Meaning neither the LLM or the licensed therapist will voluntarily say, you are healed, you don't need me anymore.
        Forgeties79 7mo ago
        Because that’s not really how therapy works
        logifail 7mo ago
        Is there a generally-agreed description of "how therapy works"?
        Forgeties79 7mo ago
        Yes, the DSM-5
  - moduspol 7mo ago
    Counter-point: I often raise the same question of people with human therapists. I do not get strong responses.
    - Forgeties79 7mo ago
      An LLM is completely unable to make that determination. They can’t even see you. So much information is lost when it’s text-only. Where are you often asking this question/getting these weak responses?
      - moduspol 7mo ago
        You don't ask the therapist. You ask the person seeking therapy.
shimman 7mo ago
You can't be careful at all doing this, this is like smoking a cigarette in a dynamite factory. Using LLMs for therapy is so deeply dystopian and disgusting, people need human empathy for therapy. LLMs do not emit empathy. Complete disaster waiting to happen for that individual.
- DrewADesign 7mo ago
  Using an LLM for therapy is like using an iPad as an all-purpose child attention pacifier. Sure, it’s convenient. Sure there’s no immediate harm. Why a stressed parent would be attracted to the idea is obvious… and of course it’s a terrible idea.
  - wiseowise 7mo ago
    Using LLM for therapy is like using iPad as a study assistance. It doesn’t replace your work.
    - DrewADesign 7mo ago
      It’s nothing like that. Using an iPad for study assistance is a conduit to many credible sources and tools. They can be evaluated using context, reputation, reviews, etc. An LLM generates non-deterministic information using sources you can’t even know, let alone evaluate, and is more primed to agree with you than give critical and objective evaluation. It is, at best, like asking your closest parent to help you through difficult interpersonal situations: The interaction is probably, subconsciously, going to be skewed enough towards soothing you that you just can’t consider it objective. The difference is that with an LLM, that’s deliberate. It’s designed in.
- astrange 7mo ago
  Claudes have lots of empathy. The issue is the opposite - it isn't very good at challenging you and it's not capable of independently verifying you're not bullshitting it or lying about your own situation. But it's better than talking to yourself or an abuser!
mettamage 7mo ago
In my experience, one also needs to be careful with actual therapists

You always have to be careful with LLMs, but to be fair, I felt like Claude is such a good therapist, at least it is good to start with if you want to unpack yourself. I have been to 3 short human therapist sessions in my life, and I only felt some kind of genuine self-improvement and progress with Claude.

QuiDortDine 7mo ago
And how do you draw the line between feeling progress and actually making progress?
- layer8 7mo ago
  The same way you distinguish between feeling like having a problem and actually having a problem.
  - Forgeties79 7mo ago
    This is needlessly flippant and not really the same thing. Determining progress in a therapy setting is usually a collaborative effort between the therapist and the client. An LLM is not a reliable agent to make that determination.
    - layer8 7mo ago
      I didn’t claim that an LLM is that, and I fully agree that it is not. I’m saying that one is inherently one’s own judge of whether one has a problem. You go to a therapist when you feel you have a problem that warrants it. You stop going when you feel you don’t have it anymore. And OP is very likely assessing their progress in the same way. I wasn’t being flippant if the parent was asking a genuine question.
      - Forgeties79 7mo ago
        > I’m saying that one is inherently one’s own judge of whether one has a problem. You go to a therapist when you feel you have a problem that warrants it That is for certain types of therapy/clinical care. It is not always - and often isn’t - the case. Plenty of diagnoses and care protocols are not a matter of opinion or based on “you feeling there’s an issue” or deciding on your own there is no longer an issue.
    - logifail 7mo ago
      > Determining progress in a therapy setting is usually a collaborative effort between the therapist and the client. An LLM is not a reliable agent to make that determination Can anyone describe how to determine how a (professional, human) therapist is "a reliable agent" to make such a determination?
      - Forgeties79 7mo ago
        If you want to call into question the entire field of behavioral health and the training that is involved then that is fine, but if that’s how you feel then this entire discussion is really about something different and I can’t bridge the gap here.
    - mlrtime 7mo ago
      The thing they have in common is that they will both go forever.... Meaning neither the LLM or the licensed therapist will voluntarily say, you are healed, you don't need me anymore.
      - Forgeties79 7mo ago
        Because that’s not really how therapy works
        logifail 7mo ago
        Is there a generally-agreed description of "how therapy works"?
        Forgeties79 7mo ago
        Yes, the DSM-5
- moduspol 7mo ago
  Counter-point: I often raise the same question of people with human therapists. I do not get strong responses.
  - Forgeties79 7mo ago
    An LLM is completely unable to make that determination. They can’t even see you. So much information is lost when it’s text-only. Where are you often asking this question/getting these weak responses?
    - moduspol 7mo ago
      You don't ask the therapist. You ask the person seeking therapy.

shimman 7mo ago

You can't be careful at all doing this, this is like smoking a cigarette in a dynamite factory. Using LLMs for therapy is so deeply dystopian and disgusting, people need human empathy for therapy. LLMs do not emit empathy. Complete disaster waiting to happen for that individual.

DrewADesign 7mo ago
Using an LLM for therapy is like using an iPad as an all-purpose child attention pacifier. Sure, it’s convenient. Sure there’s no immediate harm. Why a stressed parent would be attracted to the idea is obvious… and of course it’s a terrible idea.
- wiseowise 7mo ago
  Using LLM for therapy is like using iPad as a study assistance. It doesn’t replace your work.
  - DrewADesign 7mo ago
    It’s nothing like that. Using an iPad for study assistance is a conduit to many credible sources and tools. They can be evaluated using context, reputation, reviews, etc. An LLM generates non-deterministic information using sources you can’t even know, let alone evaluate, and is more primed to agree with you than give critical and objective evaluation. It is, at best, like asking your closest parent to help you through difficult interpersonal situations: The interaction is probably, subconsciously, going to be skewed enough towards soothing you that you just can’t consider it objective. The difference is that with an LLM, that’s deliberate. It’s designed in.
astrange 7mo ago
Claudes have lots of empathy. The issue is the opposite - it isn't very good at challenging you and it's not capable of independently verifying you're not bullshitting it or lying about your own situation. But it's better than talking to yourself or an abuser!

mettamage 7mo ago

In my experience, one also needs to be careful with actual therapists