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California is a great example; highest electricity prices in the US (not counting Hawaii, which makes sense) despite significant hydro and fantastic solar capac
by eliben 6mo ago
California is a great example; highest electricity prices in the US (not counting Hawaii, which makes sense) despite significant hydro and fantastic solar capacity. In the last few years California runs 100% renewable on many days (and growing) every year.
Economics 101: prices are not set by what goods cost to create + markup. Prices are set by how much people are willing to pay.
- gentooflux 6mo agoWhy is it "people are willing to pay" and not "corporations are brazen enough to charge"? These utilities are necessities and relatively few people have access to cheaper alternatives to them.
- vovavili 6mo agoBecause, under usual circumstances, self-interested corporations compete against each other to get as close to what people are willing to pay for energy as possible.
- cap11235 6mo ago> compete against each other Citation needed.
- beejiu 6mo agoThe regulations mandate that the market operates that way. It's the government that should be held to account.
- bronson 6mo agoBecause PG&E is a for-profit company. They are supposed to charge what the market will bear.
- toyg 6mo agoYou could solve that with a stroke of a pen, by re-nationalizing.
- p12tic 6mo ago> In the last few years California runs 100% renewable on many days (and growing) every year. How many is "many days"? Gas is still used for at least one fifth of electricity. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-CAL-CISO/5y/monthly https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-CAL-CISO/5y/mont...
- eliben 6mo agoAccording to the official tracker (https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/clean-energy-serving-california/tracking-progress-toward-100-clean-energy https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/clean-energy-serving-... and elsewhere) there were 279 days in 2025 where California was on 100% renewable for _some_ time during the day (could be hours, could be minutes at mid-day). In total hours equivalent of 77.3 full days over 2025.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- sam345 6mo agoMeaning it's supply. Overall dupply low because fossil fuels discouraged and penalized, demand high, price high.
- dotancohen 6mo agoI know nothing about California so please correct me if I'm wrong. You mention significant hydro and solar capacity in California. So minimal carbon externality: lung disease and climate change. If you consider that externalised cost into the cost of electricity elsewhere, does not California and other renewable-rich electric grids fare more competitive on price? E.g. the problem is not the expensive renewables in California, rather, the problem is that the cost of declining human and animal health and climate change is externalised for the fossil fuel.
- WarmWash 6mo agoPG&E's prices are not a function of what people will pay though, it's a function of what people expect. CA wants green energy now (aggressive targets), needs to have fire hardened infrastructure (expensive upgrades), and wants full service to sprawling remote areas using modern infrastructure. The combination of these is incredibly expensive. If you don't believe me, buy PGE stock and get your dividend from their "greed". But honestly, the stock is an awful performer, because the actual problems facing them are real.
- jeffbee 6mo agoCalifornia has high volumetric rates, but mostly that is because it has much more distributed generation than any other state, uses far less grid power, so the grid rates are dominated by fixed grid costs. Actual monthly electric bills in California are not remarkable at all. According to the EIA the typical residential electric bill in California is almost exactly the same as Texas: $174.59 vs. $173.94.