5 ms·

Sounds great! The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. These sorts of "special discounts" are fundamentally

Sounds great! The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. These sorts of "special discounts" are fundamentally harmful to the economy as a whole.

irishcoffee 7mo ago
I can see how say, a roofing business might have a “VIP” sale during a slow season, such that a discounted contract is signed and money is exchanged in the future when the weather doesn’t prohibit the work. I don’t think that is unreasonable.
- Jiro 7mo ago
  The season is the same for all customers, so that isn't surveillance pricing.
- wat10000 7mo ago
  I can see how a roofing business might buy your online shopping history, deduce that you drive a Lexus, and bump up their prices. Then profile you as not very handy, and cut corners knowing you won’t spot the issues.
  - irishcoffee 7mo ago
    As opposed to just using Google Maps or driving by your house? Those options are a lot cheaper.
    - wat10000 7mo ago
      Garages exist.
      - irishcoffee 7mo ago
        They do. Were you trying to make a point there?
        wat10000 7mo ago
        Google Maps or driving by their house won’t tell you if someone has a Lexus parked inside their garage.
        irishcoffee 7mo ago
        If someone owns a home with a garage, you don't need to know what kind of car they own to case how wealthy they are. It'll be pretty obvious just by looking at the house, the lawn, the neighbors homes, their lawns, their cars, is there a pool in the backyard, is there a community pool with expensive memberships, etc. Google maps and social media will tell you a whole lot... for free. Why pay? Clearly not because some people may own garages and they may or not store their cars in them. Most people load their garages up with so much shit a car doesn't have a prayer of fitting anyways.
        wat10000 7mo ago
        Just because lots of info is available doesn't mean more info wouldn't be useful. You never know if your customer might be well above the neighborhood's average wealth. Or be average but have poor impulse control when spending money, which is even more valuable.
        irishcoffee 7mo ago
        No company wants to blow $50 a customer on tokens for the possibility of maybe selling them a roof, when they can use the free bits of the internet... for free. Given the recent exposure of how token usage and limits have somehow gone through the roof in the past few months reinforces this point.
AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
> The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. The theory behind capitalism requires people to take into account what they know when making decisions. Suppose you have a business where many customers expect to be able to try the product before committing to buy it so the cost of paying for shipping for "free returns" has to be incorporated into the advertised price. Then you notice that a subset of customers have a better idea of what they want and never trouble you with returns, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business. That's capitalism working the way it's supposed to. The customers who consume fewer resources get to pay lower prices. But it's the thing this bill prohibits, isn't it?
- thayne 7mo ago
  If capatilism was working the way it was supposed to, the customer could choose between paying more up front, but having the option of a "free" return, or paying less upfront byt having to pay for a return (or not be able to return it). And for that matter, the customer would have enough information to know the quality of the product before purchasing, but that is often not possible.
  - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
    Everybody knows the cows are not actually spheres. It's about how you deal with it. If you try to sell "return insurance" then some customers don't buy it but end up wanting to return it anyway and then leave you a bad review for not having free returns. That costs you more than charging somewhat higher prices and having free returns, so that's what you do instead. But now efficiency requires some other mechanism of allowing the people who don't do excessive returns to pay a lower price. Also, suppose you actually did sell return insurance. Then you notice that a subset of the customers who buy return insurance rarely use it, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business.
    - wat10000 7mo ago
      Your idea of charging less to customers who know what they want is also a spherical cow. They’ll buy your entire life from a data broker and charge you more because yesterday you accidentally viewed some Lamborghini seat covers. They’ll calculate that you have less willpower on Thursday nights and change their advertised price from $10 to ON SALE $2 off $12. They’ll just do coincidentally use the same algorithm to determine their price as all the other stores do so they don’t have to worry about competing on price.

Sounds great! The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. These sorts of "special discounts" are fundamentally harmful to the economy as a whole.

irishcoffee 7mo ago

I can see how say, a roofing business might have a “VIP” sale during a slow season, such that a discounted contract is signed and money is exchanged in the future when the weather doesn’t prohibit the work. I don’t think that is unreasonable.

Jiro 7mo ago
The season is the same for all customers, so that isn't surveillance pricing.
wat10000 7mo ago
I can see how a roofing business might buy your online shopping history, deduce that you drive a Lexus, and bump up their prices. Then profile you as not very handy, and cut corners knowing you won’t spot the issues.
- irishcoffee 7mo ago
  As opposed to just using Google Maps or driving by your house? Those options are a lot cheaper.
  - wat10000 7mo ago
    Garages exist.
    - irishcoffee 7mo ago
      They do. Were you trying to make a point there?
      - wat10000 7mo ago
        Google Maps or driving by their house won’t tell you if someone has a Lexus parked inside their garage.
        irishcoffee 7mo ago
        If someone owns a home with a garage, you don't need to know what kind of car they own to case how wealthy they are. It'll be pretty obvious just by looking at the house, the lawn, the neighbors homes, their lawns, their cars, is there a pool in the backyard, is there a community pool with expensive memberships, etc. Google maps and social media will tell you a whole lot... for free. Why pay? Clearly not because some people may own garages and they may or not store their cars in them. Most people load their garages up with so much shit a car doesn't have a prayer of fitting anyways.
        wat10000 7mo ago
        Just because lots of info is available doesn't mean more info wouldn't be useful. You never know if your customer might be well above the neighborhood's average wealth. Or be average but have poor impulse control when spending money, which is even more valuable.
        irishcoffee 7mo ago
        No company wants to blow $50 a customer on tokens for the possibility of maybe selling them a roof, when they can use the free bits of the internet... for free. Given the recent exposure of how token usage and limits have somehow gone through the roof in the past few months reinforces this point.

AnthonyMouse 7mo ago

> The theory behind capitalism only works if prices are transparent and goods are transferable. The theory behind capitalism requires people to take into account what they know when making decisions. Suppose you have a business where many customers expect to be able to try the product before committing to buy it so the cost of paying for shipping for "free returns" has to be incorporated into the advertised price. Then you notice that a subset of customers have a better idea of what they want and never trouble you with returns, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business. That's capitalism working the way it's supposed to. The customers who consume fewer resources get to pay lower prices. But it's the thing this bill prohibits, isn't it?

thayne 7mo ago
If capatilism was working the way it was supposed to, the customer could choose between paying more up front, but having the option of a "free" return, or paying less upfront byt having to pay for a return (or not be able to return it). And for that matter, the customer would have enough information to know the quality of the product before purchasing, but that is often not possible.
- AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
  Everybody knows the cows are not actually spheres. It's about how you deal with it. If you try to sell "return insurance" then some customers don't buy it but end up wanting to return it anyway and then leave you a bad review for not having free returns. That costs you more than charging somewhat higher prices and having free returns, so that's what you do instead. But now efficiency requires some other mechanism of allowing the people who don't do excessive returns to pay a lower price. Also, suppose you actually did sell return insurance. Then you notice that a subset of the customers who buy return insurance rarely use it, so you want to give them a discount to try to get more of their business.
  - wat10000 7mo ago
    Your idea of charging less to customers who know what they want is also a spherical cow. They’ll buy your entire life from a data broker and charge you more because yesterday you accidentally viewed some Lamborghini seat covers. They’ll calculate that you have less willpower on Thursday nights and change their advertised price from $10 to ON SALE $2 off $12. They’ll just do coincidentally use the same algorithm to determine their price as all the other stores do so they don’t have to worry about competing on price.