4 ms·

Researchers find 3,500-year-old loom that reveals textile revolution

133 points by geox 7mo ago

srean 7mo ago
I am always pleasantly amused that many HN folks share with me a love for weaving, knitting and knotting; not to mention ropes. Dang had once posted a long list of HN discussions on these topics. I think there is something about them that squirts a little bit of dopamine in our pattern seeking, puzzle solving brains. For me, one of draws was how does the symmetry of the woven pattern get weft into the cloth. Multi-shaft looms does it differently from, say, a Kashmiri rug. When I had joined HN decades ago I had no idea that there would be this shared interest. Frankly, there were no reason for this to be the case. Then one day this happened https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44462404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44462404
- 8bitsrule 7mo ago
  Always good to learn more about the timeline of techniques lost in the mists of time. Some of the finest works of art were 'coded' in fibers, much more durable that most other media!
  - bitwize 7mo ago
    Including, inasmuch as you can consider it fine art, the ROM for the Apollo onboard computer! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory
- zem 7mo ago
  I think it's not just puzzle solving - for me it's the idea of creating something from raw materials where that something is itself a standard building block. it appeals to the same part of me that programming does.
- mitthrowaway2 7mo ago
  I have heard it said that the word "technology" shares its roots with the word "textiles". Maybe it's not so surprising that there would be a shared interest as well!
  - shagie 7mo ago
    https://www.etymonline.com/word/*teks- https://www.etymonline.com/word/*teks- > Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to weave," also "to fabricate," especially with an ax, also "to make wicker or wattle fabric for (mud-covered) house walls." > It might form all or part of: architect; context; dachshund; polytechnic; pretext; subtle; technical; techno-; technology; tectonic; tete; text; textile; tiller (n.1) "bar to turn the rudder of a boat;" tissue; toil (n.2) "net, snare." > It might also be the source of: Sanskrit taksati "he fashions, constructs," taksan "carpenter;" Avestan taša "ax, hatchet," thwaxš- "be busy;" Old Persian taxš- "be active;" Latin texere "to weave, fabricate," tela "web, net, warp of a fabric;" Greek tekton "carpenter," tekhnē "art;" Old Church Slavonic tesla "ax, hatchet;" ...
    - echelon_musk 7mo ago
      According to William Dalrymple, India was once responsible for a third of the world's GDP, with the most advanced textile industry in the world before the East India Company dismantled it. A Sanskrit origin is intriguing.
      - shagie 7mo ago
        As a note, Sanskrit is a "sibling" or cousin of Latin or Greek in the family tree of languages ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuro... ). Neither Latin nor Greek grew from Sanskrit but rather each (and many other languages) grew from Proto-Indo-European that was believed to exist somewhere in 4500 to 2500 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary (the "Construction, fabrication" section includes *teks)
- shrubble 7mo ago
  The creator of SNOBOL and Icon programming languages, Ralph Griswold, also developed an interest in weaving and wrote about it; see for instance https://www.thelacebee.com/the-lace-notes/tess-the-professor-the-online-digital-archive-of-weaving-and-lacemaking https://www.thelacebee.com/the-lace-notes/tess-the-professor...
  - srean 7mo ago
    Thanks for the link. I did not know about this before. I have been to the bibliography page linked from there many times before but did not know the Icon connection. Got reminded of Durer's exquisite knot works.
- don-bright 7mo ago
  Jaquard loom was one of the first machines that could operate based on a set of symbols / patterns encoded on a punched card. Computers ran on punched cards until the 1970s. Voting machines used punched cards until pretty recently (infamous "hanging chad" from 2000 US election).
- teleforce 7mo ago
  Fun facts, TK Solver or TK!Solver original developer is Milos Konopaseka a textile engineer from from Czechoslovakia. TK Solver is a software cousin of the infamous VisiCalc, developed by the same company Software Arts. VisiCalc has been discontinued but TK Solver is still being sold today by Universal Technical Systems (UTS) [1]. Milos also developed the Question Answering System (QAS) running on a PDP-10. It operates on equations relating input yarn, cloth area, fiber strengths, etc. For a desired cloth strength, you could solve for fiber strength, or given fiber strength, you could solve for the cloth strength. The same operations you can still perform in TK Solver. [1] Comprehensive Mathematical Software Tool for Engineers: https://www.uts.com/Products/TKSolver https://www.uts.com/Products/TKSolver
mmooss 7mo ago
Here's the paper that is the subject of the article; it's free (open access): https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/evidence-of-a-warpweighted-loom-in-the-bronze-age-settlement-of-cabezo-redondo-southeast-spain/D92BF7852BD04416A7943AA87FB87AD6 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/ev... Basso Rial RE, García Atiénzar G, et al. Evidence of a warp-weighted loom in the Bronze Age settlement of Cabezo Redondo (south-east Spain). Antiquity. Published online 2026:1-18. doi:10.15184/aqy.2026.10312

133 points by geox 7mo ago

srean 7mo ago

I am always pleasantly amused that many HN folks share with me a love for weaving, knitting and knotting; not to mention ropes. Dang had once posted a long list of HN discussions on these topics. I think there is something about them that squirts a little bit of dopamine in our pattern seeking, puzzle solving brains. For me, one of draws was how does the symmetry of the woven pattern get weft into the cloth. Multi-shaft looms does it differently from, say, a Kashmiri rug. When I had joined HN decades ago I had no idea that there would be this shared interest. Frankly, there were no reason for this to be the case. Then one day this happened https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44462404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44462404

8bitsrule 7mo ago
Always good to learn more about the timeline of techniques lost in the mists of time. Some of the finest works of art were 'coded' in fibers, much more durable that most other media!
- bitwize 7mo ago
  Including, inasmuch as you can consider it fine art, the ROM for the Apollo onboard computer! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory
zem 7mo ago
I think it's not just puzzle solving - for me it's the idea of creating something from raw materials where that something is itself a standard building block. it appeals to the same part of me that programming does.
mitthrowaway2 7mo ago
I have heard it said that the word "technology" shares its roots with the word "textiles". Maybe it's not so surprising that there would be a shared interest as well!
- shagie 7mo ago
  https://www.etymonline.com/word/*teks- https://www.etymonline.com/word/*teks- > Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to weave," also "to fabricate," especially with an ax, also "to make wicker or wattle fabric for (mud-covered) house walls." > It might form all or part of: architect; context; dachshund; polytechnic; pretext; subtle; technical; techno-; technology; tectonic; tete; text; textile; tiller (n.1) "bar to turn the rudder of a boat;" tissue; toil (n.2) "net, snare." > It might also be the source of: Sanskrit taksati "he fashions, constructs," taksan "carpenter;" Avestan taša "ax, hatchet," thwaxš- "be busy;" Old Persian taxš- "be active;" Latin texere "to weave, fabricate," tela "web, net, warp of a fabric;" Greek tekton "carpenter," tekhnē "art;" Old Church Slavonic tesla "ax, hatchet;" ...
  - echelon_musk 7mo ago
    According to William Dalrymple, India was once responsible for a third of the world's GDP, with the most advanced textile industry in the world before the East India Company dismantled it. A Sanskrit origin is intriguing.
    - shagie 7mo ago
      As a note, Sanskrit is a "sibling" or cousin of Latin or Greek in the family tree of languages ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/IndoEuro... ). Neither Latin nor Greek grew from Sanskrit but rather each (and many other languages) grew from Proto-Indo-European that was believed to exist somewhere in 4500 to 2500 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary (the "Construction, fabrication" section includes *teks)
shrubble 7mo ago
The creator of SNOBOL and Icon programming languages, Ralph Griswold, also developed an interest in weaving and wrote about it; see for instance https://www.thelacebee.com/the-lace-notes/tess-the-professor-the-online-digital-archive-of-weaving-and-lacemaking https://www.thelacebee.com/the-lace-notes/tess-the-professor...
- srean 7mo ago
  Thanks for the link. I did not know about this before. I have been to the bibliography page linked from there many times before but did not know the Icon connection. Got reminded of Durer's exquisite knot works.
don-bright 7mo ago
Jaquard loom was one of the first machines that could operate based on a set of symbols / patterns encoded on a punched card. Computers ran on punched cards until the 1970s. Voting machines used punched cards until pretty recently (infamous "hanging chad" from 2000 US election).
teleforce 7mo ago
Fun facts, TK Solver or TK!Solver original developer is Milos Konopaseka a textile engineer from from Czechoslovakia. TK Solver is a software cousin of the infamous VisiCalc, developed by the same company Software Arts. VisiCalc has been discontinued but TK Solver is still being sold today by Universal Technical Systems (UTS) [1]. Milos also developed the Question Answering System (QAS) running on a PDP-10. It operates on equations relating input yarn, cloth area, fiber strengths, etc. For a desired cloth strength, you could solve for fiber strength, or given fiber strength, you could solve for the cloth strength. The same operations you can still perform in TK Solver. [1] Comprehensive Mathematical Software Tool for Engineers: https://www.uts.com/Products/TKSolver https://www.uts.com/Products/TKSolver

mmooss 7mo ago

Here's the paper that is the subject of the article; it's free (open access): https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/evidence-of-a-warpweighted-loom-in-the-bronze-age-settlement-of-cabezo-redondo-southeast-spain/D92BF7852BD04416A7943AA87FB87AD6 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/ev... Basso Rial RE, García Atiénzar G, et al. Evidence of a warp-weighted loom in the Bronze Age settlement of Cabezo Redondo (south-east Spain). Antiquity. Published online 2026:1-18. doi:10.15184/aqy.2026.10312