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Whether you like or dislike Obama, the single biggest difference between him and Romney is leadership the way you described it -- willingness to stand behind so

by jbooth 14y ago

Whether you like or dislike Obama, the single biggest difference between him and Romney is leadership the way you described it -- willingness to stand behind something unpopular. Winning requires all kinds. Sketch out the broad vision, and then do the little data-driven things that can give you a bunch of tiny little edges on the margin. But if it's not close to begin with, no amount of small edges are gonna help you. A good analogy would be having good architecture and good code quality in a project -- you need both, but no amount of code quality can save a bad architecture.

mseebach 14y ago
> Whether you like or dislike Obama, the single biggest difference between him and Romney is leadership the way you described it -- willingness to stand behind something unpopular. That doesn't sound completely right to me. Romney's stint at Bain was expected to cost him the presidency (and maybe did) because of the unpopular things he did while there: Fired people and outsourced jobs while making a couple hundred million for himself in the process. Of the many things he's flop-flopped and waffled on, that record isn't one of them. If running for president in a down economy with that around your neck isn't standing behind something unpopular, what is?
- jbooth 14y ago
  Excuse me, political leadership. Romney has, to my knowledge, not once stood on the losing side of an issue out of principle, and if the electorate flips, he does too. Obama has gone out on a limb for things that aren't popular multiple times. Not being able to change his past at Bain, not that he didn't try, isn't a sign of backbone, it's just how 'the past' works.
  - mseebach 14y ago
    > Romney has, to my knowledge, not once stood on the losing side of an issue out of principle You clearly have an issue in mind when Obama did this? > Not being able to change his past at Bain, not that he didn't try, isn't a sign of backbone, it's just how 'the past' works. By running with this past (it's very much an option not to run), he implicitly ran on a non-flop-floppable platform of "I'm willing to do stuff that's unpopular and will hurt".
    - jbooth 14y ago
      The healthcare bill is a pretty high profile example of Obama standing by something that's a short-term political loser. Stimulus, arguably, as well.
      - mseebach 14y ago
        Hm, you're right. I was actually under the impression ACA was fairly popular among the relevant groups, but it wasn't. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/six-charts-to-explain-health-care-polling/2012/06/28/gJQAlBrn8V_blog.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/six-charts-...
      - tokipin 14y ago
        There's a lot of stuff. In addition to those, these are other examples off the top of my head: * Coming out in support of gay marriage, which has always lost in state ballots. * Going after Osama bin Laden, on a 50/50 chance, inside a foreign nation who would have every right to shoot down our invading helicopters. * The auto bailout, which was not popular at the time. It's amazing how easily people forget stuff like this.
        ryanwaggoner 14y ago
        Osama bin Laden is a great example, because it could have gone horribly wrong and made Obama look terrible. The other two are really lousy examples, for two reasons: 1. Gay marriage and the auto bailout are or have been unpopular, but not among Obama's core voting groups. Yes, standing behind those positions will piss off lots of people, but not people who were going to vote for him anyway. The ACA falls under this category as well, in that it wasn't terribly popular, but many on the left didn't like it because it didn't go far enough. No way were they going to vote for Romney because Obama hadn't gone far enough with the ACA. 2. Obama didn't come out in favor of gay marriage until Biden forced his hand, and there's no way he would have. But Biden forced his hand and it turned out well for him in the end. Obama is just as calculating and concerned about keeping his base happy as any other national politician.

by jbooth 14y ago

mseebach 14y ago

> Whether you like or dislike Obama, the single biggest difference between him and Romney is leadership the way you described it -- willingness to stand behind something unpopular. That doesn't sound completely right to me. Romney's stint at Bain was expected to cost him the presidency (and maybe did) because of the unpopular things he did while there: Fired people and outsourced jobs while making a couple hundred million for himself in the process. Of the many things he's flop-flopped and waffled on, that record isn't one of them. If running for president in a down economy with that around your neck isn't standing behind something unpopular, what is?

jbooth 14y ago
Excuse me, political leadership. Romney has, to my knowledge, not once stood on the losing side of an issue out of principle, and if the electorate flips, he does too. Obama has gone out on a limb for things that aren't popular multiple times. Not being able to change his past at Bain, not that he didn't try, isn't a sign of backbone, it's just how 'the past' works.
- mseebach 14y ago
  > Romney has, to my knowledge, not once stood on the losing side of an issue out of principle You clearly have an issue in mind when Obama did this? > Not being able to change his past at Bain, not that he didn't try, isn't a sign of backbone, it's just how 'the past' works. By running with this past (it's very much an option not to run), he implicitly ran on a non-flop-floppable platform of "I'm willing to do stuff that's unpopular and will hurt".
  - jbooth 14y ago
    The healthcare bill is a pretty high profile example of Obama standing by something that's a short-term political loser. Stimulus, arguably, as well.
    - mseebach 14y ago
      Hm, you're right. I was actually under the impression ACA was fairly popular among the relevant groups, but it wasn't. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/six-charts-to-explain-health-care-polling/2012/06/28/gJQAlBrn8V_blog.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/six-charts-...
    - tokipin 14y ago
      There's a lot of stuff. In addition to those, these are other examples off the top of my head: * Coming out in support of gay marriage, which has always lost in state ballots. * Going after Osama bin Laden, on a 50/50 chance, inside a foreign nation who would have every right to shoot down our invading helicopters. * The auto bailout, which was not popular at the time. It's amazing how easily people forget stuff like this.
      - ryanwaggoner 14y ago
        Osama bin Laden is a great example, because it could have gone horribly wrong and made Obama look terrible. The other two are really lousy examples, for two reasons: 1. Gay marriage and the auto bailout are or have been unpopular, but not among Obama's core voting groups. Yes, standing behind those positions will piss off lots of people, but not people who were going to vote for him anyway. The ACA falls under this category as well, in that it wasn't terribly popular, but many on the left didn't like it because it didn't go far enough. No way were they going to vote for Romney because Obama hadn't gone far enough with the ACA. 2. Obama didn't come out in favor of gay marriage until Biden forced his hand, and there's no way he would have. But Biden forced his hand and it turned out well for him in the end. Obama is just as calculating and concerned about keeping his base happy as any other national politician.