5 ms·

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC.

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

markdown 6mo ago
As it should be. It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.
- weakened_malloc 6mo ago
  Eh in a way, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand if Fed governors didn't have independence, the inflation rate would make Venezuela look like a bastion of economic management. On the other hand, you end up with situations like this where the EC can just keep trying to force in poor policy.
  - qwytw 6mo ago
    The Fed has a pretty strict and narrow mandate and an even narrower toolset. They can't start coming up and imposing random laws and regulations (outside the banking sector) just because they want to...
    - junofan 6mo ago
      Worth noting they have a strong incentive to grow payroll, which currently stands at 25,000-ish.
- DeathArrow 6mo ago
  You argue that people electing officials who make policies affecting those people is bad?
  - markdown 6mo ago
    Very, very bad. Have you seen the quality of politicians today?
3836293648 6mo ago
This in standard in europe. Most places don't vote for their PM or President either, they're just the leader of the largest party in parliament and chosen by parliament
- verisimi 6mo ago
  Oh, if unelected officials is the standard, that's fine then. Move along.
  - hermanzegerman 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - andrepd 6mo ago
      No, but I vote for the Prime Minister. I don't vote for the European Commissioner or the President of the Council. What's idiotic is presenting these are the same.
      - 3836293648 6mo ago
        You don't vote for Prime Minister. Either Parliament votes for a Prime Minister or your country messed up the translation of President.
        andrepd 6mo ago
        You don't de jure vote for a Prime Minister but you de facto do so. Please, don't pretend to be obtuse.
        3836293648 6mo ago
        I pay just as much attention to the prime ministerial candidate as the Commission presidential candidate. Both are blatantly obvious per party. If what you really mean is that you don't follow EU level politics, just say so.
supermatt 6mo ago
The European Commission represents the interests of the member states, while the European Parliament represent the interests of the citizens. NO LAW CAN PASS without the consent of the citizens directly elected representatives. There is no "pushing through". If you don't like how you are represented at the commission, then blame your government. It is THEIR representative - not yours. Also, don't forget that the commission as a whole needs to be approved by a vote at European Parliament - i.e. by the directly elected representatives.
- vintermann 6mo ago
  An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests. I hope you agree that elected representation isn't perfect - there is going to be disalignment, ways in which representatives resemble each other more than they resemble their voters. This disalignment can only get amplified with every layer of indirect election. It never gets better.
  - supermatt 6mo ago
    A states interests are long term and strategic. These aren't the same as an aggregation of citizens relatively short term interests, but should absolutely be influenced by them. I totally agree with what you say about elected representation - but I am also thankful that decisions aren't made through direct democracy given that so many people are often dangerously uninformed and easily manipulated.
  - indymike 6mo ago
    > An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests. Sometimes a government only cares about a few citizens, or in some cases one citizen.
- RobertoG 6mo ago
  No, the European Council is suppose to represent the interest of the member states. The European Commission is suppose to be the executive of the European Union. Translating to the USA system, it would be like saying that the White House is suppose to represent the USA states. No, It's suppose to represent the interest of Europe as an entity. Any introduction to democracy explains that the power is separated in the executive, the legislative and the judicial. The European Parliament is suppose to be the legislative body but can't initiate legislation. The Commission is suppose to be the executive, but, somehow can also initiate legislation and is not elected directly by the citizens. And the council that, I suppose would be the equivalent to a senate, is not directly elected by the citizens. And we could talk about how all the important decisions are done in the dark, or how, like in this case, when something is not 'correctly' voted, they just keep bringing it back until it pass, or how they have started to 'sanction' people without judicial supervision. It's time to open the eyes, because this is not going to improve. The EU 'democracy' is a joke.

markdown 6mo ago

As it should be. It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.

weakened_malloc 6mo ago
Eh in a way, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand if Fed governors didn't have independence, the inflation rate would make Venezuela look like a bastion of economic management. On the other hand, you end up with situations like this where the EC can just keep trying to force in poor policy.
- qwytw 6mo ago
  The Fed has a pretty strict and narrow mandate and an even narrower toolset. They can't start coming up and imposing random laws and regulations (outside the banking sector) just because they want to...
  - junofan 6mo ago
    Worth noting they have a strong incentive to grow payroll, which currently stands at 25,000-ish.
DeathArrow 6mo ago
You argue that people electing officials who make policies affecting those people is bad?
- markdown 6mo ago
  Very, very bad. Have you seen the quality of politicians today?

3836293648 6mo ago

This in standard in europe. Most places don't vote for their PM or President either, they're just the leader of the largest party in parliament and chosen by parliament

verisimi 6mo ago
Oh, if unelected officials is the standard, that's fine then. Move along.
- hermanzegerman 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - andrepd 6mo ago
    No, but I vote for the Prime Minister. I don't vote for the European Commissioner or the President of the Council. What's idiotic is presenting these are the same.
    - 3836293648 6mo ago
      You don't vote for Prime Minister. Either Parliament votes for a Prime Minister or your country messed up the translation of President.
      - andrepd 6mo ago
        You don't de jure vote for a Prime Minister but you de facto do so. Please, don't pretend to be obtuse.
        3836293648 6mo ago
        I pay just as much attention to the prime ministerial candidate as the Commission presidential candidate. Both are blatantly obvious per party. If what you really mean is that you don't follow EU level politics, just say so.

supermatt 6mo ago

The European Commission represents the interests of the member states, while the European Parliament represent the interests of the citizens. NO LAW CAN PASS without the consent of the citizens directly elected representatives. There is no "pushing through". If you don't like how you are represented at the commission, then blame your government. It is THEIR representative - not yours. Also, don't forget that the commission as a whole needs to be approved by a vote at European Parliament - i.e. by the directly elected representatives.

vintermann 6mo ago
An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests. I hope you agree that elected representation isn't perfect - there is going to be disalignment, ways in which representatives resemble each other more than they resemble their voters. This disalignment can only get amplified with every layer of indirect election. It never gets better.
- supermatt 6mo ago
  A states interests are long term and strategic. These aren't the same as an aggregation of citizens relatively short term interests, but should absolutely be influenced by them. I totally agree with what you say about elected representation - but I am also thankful that decisions aren't made through direct democracy given that so many people are often dangerously uninformed and easily manipulated.
- indymike 6mo ago
  > An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests. Sometimes a government only cares about a few citizens, or in some cases one citizen.
RobertoG 6mo ago
No, the European Council is suppose to represent the interest of the member states. The European Commission is suppose to be the executive of the European Union. Translating to the USA system, it would be like saying that the White House is suppose to represent the USA states. No, It's suppose to represent the interest of Europe as an entity. Any introduction to democracy explains that the power is separated in the executive, the legislative and the judicial. The European Parliament is suppose to be the legislative body but can't initiate legislation. The Commission is suppose to be the executive, but, somehow can also initiate legislation and is not elected directly by the citizens. And the council that, I suppose would be the equivalent to a senate, is not directly elected by the citizens. And we could talk about how all the important decisions are done in the dark, or how, like in this case, when something is not 'correctly' voted, they just keep bringing it back until it pass, or how they have started to 'sanction' people without judicial supervision. It's time to open the eyes, because this is not going to improve. The EU 'democracy' is a joke.