4 ms·

The government is a protection racket. Laws against weed violate the sovereignty of hte individual. It's absurd that the primary argument is tax revenue. Really

The government is a protection racket. Laws against weed violate the sovereignty of hte individual. It's absurd that the primary argument is tax revenue. Really shows how whacked politics and American's conception of government is.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
I'm interested to know why you're being downvoted.
- rada 14y ago
  My guess is because of this tired and baseless anti-Americanism: Really shows how whacked American's conception of government is.
- saraid216 14y ago
  I just downvoted him because of pseudo-philosophical drivel with no substance of thought or contribution of information. Not really worth engaging him, so I just downvote.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    So, "I disagree but can't be bothered to actually justify myself". Cool, that's the kind of community participation you should be proud of. How is that drivel? He's the ONLY one here saying that it's a farce that we should have to dress this up as "Save the kids from evil pot" and "Tax evil pot to make money" when it ought to be an issue of personal liberty. Fortunately, you can't just downvote me because you disagree or can't be bothered to explain yourself. Maybe you'll choose to offer some actual thought yourself.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      Being the only person to say something does not actually make what you have to say substantial. I downvoted him because he didn't say anything, not because I disagree with him. He didn't say anything worth disagreeing with.
sethrin 14y ago
What is "individual sovereignty"? Rights are granted not by God, not by some internal edict. They come from the society you inhabit. The world of sovereign individuals is wonderful in objectivist fantasies. In reality, it results in anarchy, for a brief moment before one strongman clubs another over the head, and two other people decide to team up against their neighbors. Even casting aside the concept of civilization as we know it, you cannot reproduce in a vacuum, nor live in one. You are beholden to others for your existence, and you repay this debt by helping to ensure the continuation of the species. A morality that prizes collective rights over the rights of the individual is fundamental to our biology. Sovereignty, therefore is not a function of individuals. Lest I be decried as an opposite but equal ideologue, I do see a necessary role for the individualists. The forces of society and government are powerful, and must be resisted: what is bad for one individual is just as likely to be bad for the whole of society. Neither side should ever presume an absolute right: in this battle there is no victory. You also err in your definition of government. You were nearly correct: government is a natural monopoly on the use of force. The 'competitive market' for government is commonly called warfare. Government is a necessary evil as long as men are capable of violence.
- smsm42 14y ago
  They don't come from the society - otherwise there's nothing wrong with slavery, if only society condones it. If you want to claim the society is wrong and slavery is bad, you need to find some reason why. If the reason of "I don't like it" does not sound convincing to you, you'd have to find some principles that lie beyond the customs of the society. It doesn't have to be God's will, but it has to be something. Society can only follow these principles or violate them, and according to that be a good society or bad society. But it can not be the source of it - unless you are willing to concede slavery was perfectly fine, while society accepted it.
  - trhtrsh 14y ago
    Society is a collection of individuals, including many who opposed slavery (not all of whom were slaves). It's turtles all the way down.
  - 14y ago

drivebyacct2 14y ago

I'm interested to know why you're being downvoted.

rada 14y ago
My guess is because of this tired and baseless anti-Americanism: Really shows how whacked American's conception of government is.
saraid216 14y ago
I just downvoted him because of pseudo-philosophical drivel with no substance of thought or contribution of information. Not really worth engaging him, so I just downvote.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  So, "I disagree but can't be bothered to actually justify myself". Cool, that's the kind of community participation you should be proud of. How is that drivel? He's the ONLY one here saying that it's a farce that we should have to dress this up as "Save the kids from evil pot" and "Tax evil pot to make money" when it ought to be an issue of personal liberty. Fortunately, you can't just downvote me because you disagree or can't be bothered to explain yourself. Maybe you'll choose to offer some actual thought yourself.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Being the only person to say something does not actually make what you have to say substantial. I downvoted him because he didn't say anything, not because I disagree with him. He didn't say anything worth disagreeing with.

sethrin 14y ago

What is "individual sovereignty"? Rights are granted not by God, not by some internal edict. They come from the society you inhabit. The world of sovereign individuals is wonderful in objectivist fantasies. In reality, it results in anarchy, for a brief moment before one strongman clubs another over the head, and two other people decide to team up against their neighbors. Even casting aside the concept of civilization as we know it, you cannot reproduce in a vacuum, nor live in one. You are beholden to others for your existence, and you repay this debt by helping to ensure the continuation of the species. A morality that prizes collective rights over the rights of the individual is fundamental to our biology. Sovereignty, therefore is not a function of individuals. Lest I be decried as an opposite but equal ideologue, I do see a necessary role for the individualists. The forces of society and government are powerful, and must be resisted: what is bad for one individual is just as likely to be bad for the whole of society. Neither side should ever presume an absolute right: in this battle there is no victory. You also err in your definition of government. You were nearly correct: government is a natural monopoly on the use of force. The 'competitive market' for government is commonly called warfare. Government is a necessary evil as long as men are capable of violence.

smsm42 14y ago
They don't come from the society - otherwise there's nothing wrong with slavery, if only society condones it. If you want to claim the society is wrong and slavery is bad, you need to find some reason why. If the reason of "I don't like it" does not sound convincing to you, you'd have to find some principles that lie beyond the customs of the society. It doesn't have to be God's will, but it has to be something. Society can only follow these principles or violate them, and according to that be a good society or bad society. But it can not be the source of it - unless you are willing to concede slavery was perfectly fine, while society accepted it.
- trhtrsh 14y ago
  Society is a collection of individuals, including many who opposed slavery (not all of whom were slaves). It's turtles all the way down.
- 14y ago