5 ms·

In January, the youtuber Technology Connections did a whole rant about how ridiculous it is that we're not rushing as quickly as possible to get off of non-rene

by goda90 7mo ago

In January, the youtuber Technology Connections did a whole rant about how ridiculous it is that we're not rushing as quickly as possible to get off of non-renewable energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM

scoofy 7mo ago
It really is crazy that environmentalists were like, "hey look, free energy," and suddenly everyone started screaming "No, boo! We like the way things are!" I have a friend who has never used an induction range before that is dead set that he never wants one. I just don't get it.
- scottLobster 7mo ago
  To be fair induction ranges aren't without issues, not due to the concept itself but failures in implementation. Touch screen controls are rife and not only become impossible to use when, say, grease is splattered on them or your hands are wet/wearing gloves (common when cooking on a stove top), they can even be falsely activated by such things. Cold spots can also be a concern depending on your cookware. Unfortunately a lot of promising technology has matured in a time of consumer product enshitification, and there is no established track record for people to be nostalgic for.
  - scoofy 7mo ago
    Again, I’m talking about someone who has never used one who has their mind made up. I don’t think there is anything wrong with preferring gas. It has many superior use cases. My point is that “no, I like things this way and won’t ever consider trying the other thing, much less changing, even though the other thing ends up being effectively free in the long run” is silly, and almost certainly based in some kind of identity. Where as I think most curious people would think "Oh, neat, a new cooking surface. I'd like to try that thing."
  - stickfigure 7mo ago
    LG makes an induction range with knobs. I have one. It's wonderful.
    - tmoertel 7mo ago
      > LG makes an induction range with knobs. I have one. It's wonderful. It is encrapified with a bunch of intrusive "smart" features that nobody asked for?
      - 2postsperday 7mo ago
        [dead]
      - goda90 7mo ago
        Just don't connect it to the internet.
        stickfigure 7mo ago
        This is exactly it. If you don't connect it, it's a dumb stove like any other. I was extremely dubious about connecting it, but I decided to do it anyway and see whether it's worth it. So far I've noticed two things: * It sets the clock with NTP and follows daylight savings time. This actually might be worth it, I'm one of those people who otherwise just lives with clocks set an hour wrong for half the year. The odd thing though is that this isn't default behavior, I had to install an add-on in the mobile app. * It gives me a mobile notification when the oven gets to temp. Not really compelling. So depending on how you feel about clocks, feel free to skip the wifi setup.
  - helterskelter 7mo ago
    At least as recently as a few years ago, a lot of induction ranges on the market would tend to break and need expensive repairs. I've forgotten which part it is, I think it's the inverter or something. I've seen it happen once at somebody's house then I remember reading about that very same problem on reddit from a repair guy IIRC. I think some of the electrical equipment is somewhat under spec'd and can't handle the current. Repairs tend to be in the several hundred dollar range and can happen somewhat frequently, like annually. (This may not be a common problem anymore)
    - amarant 7mo ago
      I have one from IKEA that they market as their own (it's made in partnership with someone, can't recall who). I've had it for 3 years now, never had a problem. Was this a specific model/brand or something? To me this sounds a little like "I saw that fiats break down often, so I better not get a car" which is obviously silly
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > environmentalists were like, "hey look, free energy," It's not free. It costs trilliions of dollars to build and maintain. I think it's worth it. But one place where the climate-change movement lost the plot was in underplaying costs and overplaying the doom.
  - scoofy 7mo ago
    If I install solar panels, a battery, and a next gen breaker box in CA, even with premium equipment and no subsidies, I'm looking at a max payback period of like 20 years, right? At that point yea, it's effectively free energy. Is it an investment? Sure, but it's an investment that trivially pays for itself.
    - VK-pro 7mo ago
      I’m sleep deprived so maybe not the right words, but isn’t there an implicit IRR that a household would maintain and usually a 20 year payoff would be maybe not the first use of investment dollars? I feel maybe that’s more the problem here with renewables. It’s cheaper but not cheap enough to put the dollars there instead of somewhere else
      - scoofy 7mo ago
        I mean, the payback period is like 5 years if you count all the subsides. My point is only that, you can effectively take most of your house of the grid, even in an urban area, with a relatively short payback period, and an almost guaranteed return. Is it the most profitable place for investment dollars? Probably not, but it's effectively risk-free, and there are plenty of knock-on benefits, like having power in a blackout, and having the option of getting an EV in the future. I think most sensible people who are even moderately risk-averse would think that's a fairly winning deal when we're only talking about a small amount of up front capital.
        Someone 7mo ago
        > Is it the most profitable place for investment dollars? Probably not, but it's effectively risk-free One could even say it is risk-negative. It decreases the risk one runs of future oil price hikes. If you buy solar cells, you buy futures on energy delivery at a guaranteed price.
- zahlman 7mo ago
  ...What does induction cooking have to do with renewable energy?
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > What does induction cooking have to do with renewable energy? Gas stoves aren't renewable. For most countries, they're dependent on volatile exports.
    - zahlman 7mo ago
      See, when I initially wrote that comment, it legitimately did not occur to me that there was even such a thing as a "gas stove" until I walked away from the computer. In my world they're a strange novelty.
  - fragmede 7mo ago
    Resistive electric stoves aren't super popular for cooking on. Gas stove use gas which can't be powered by traditional renewables. Induction cooking is competitive with gas cooking and can be powered by renewables.
  - ctjr 7mo ago
    Some people (myself included) are quite attached to cooking with gas. Induction seems to be the best alternative and doesn't require non-renewable fuel.
  - zahlman 7mo ago
    Seriously, people are going to downvote me for not automatically thinking of gas stoves, when I haven't even seen one in like over a decade?
- thrance 7mo ago
  When you realize that trillions have been spent on anti-renewables propaganda over the last half-century, it gets easier to understand. Many people have been indoctrinated into fighting tooth and nail for the right of oil companies to destroy the environment.

by goda90 7mo ago

scoofy 7mo ago

It really is crazy that environmentalists were like, "hey look, free energy," and suddenly everyone started screaming "No, boo! We like the way things are!" I have a friend who has never used an induction range before that is dead set that he never wants one. I just don't get it.

scottLobster 7mo ago
To be fair induction ranges aren't without issues, not due to the concept itself but failures in implementation. Touch screen controls are rife and not only become impossible to use when, say, grease is splattered on them or your hands are wet/wearing gloves (common when cooking on a stove top), they can even be falsely activated by such things. Cold spots can also be a concern depending on your cookware. Unfortunately a lot of promising technology has matured in a time of consumer product enshitification, and there is no established track record for people to be nostalgic for.
- scoofy 7mo ago
  Again, I’m talking about someone who has never used one who has their mind made up. I don’t think there is anything wrong with preferring gas. It has many superior use cases. My point is that “no, I like things this way and won’t ever consider trying the other thing, much less changing, even though the other thing ends up being effectively free in the long run” is silly, and almost certainly based in some kind of identity. Where as I think most curious people would think "Oh, neat, a new cooking surface. I'd like to try that thing."
- stickfigure 7mo ago
  LG makes an induction range with knobs. I have one. It's wonderful.
  - tmoertel 7mo ago
    > LG makes an induction range with knobs. I have one. It's wonderful. It is encrapified with a bunch of intrusive "smart" features that nobody asked for?
    - 2postsperday 7mo ago
      [dead]
    - goda90 7mo ago
      Just don't connect it to the internet.
      - stickfigure 7mo ago
        This is exactly it. If you don't connect it, it's a dumb stove like any other. I was extremely dubious about connecting it, but I decided to do it anyway and see whether it's worth it. So far I've noticed two things: * It sets the clock with NTP and follows daylight savings time. This actually might be worth it, I'm one of those people who otherwise just lives with clocks set an hour wrong for half the year. The odd thing though is that this isn't default behavior, I had to install an add-on in the mobile app. * It gives me a mobile notification when the oven gets to temp. Not really compelling. So depending on how you feel about clocks, feel free to skip the wifi setup.
- helterskelter 7mo ago
  At least as recently as a few years ago, a lot of induction ranges on the market would tend to break and need expensive repairs. I've forgotten which part it is, I think it's the inverter or something. I've seen it happen once at somebody's house then I remember reading about that very same problem on reddit from a repair guy IIRC. I think some of the electrical equipment is somewhat under spec'd and can't handle the current. Repairs tend to be in the several hundred dollar range and can happen somewhat frequently, like annually. (This may not be a common problem anymore)
  - amarant 7mo ago
    I have one from IKEA that they market as their own (it's made in partnership with someone, can't recall who). I've had it for 3 years now, never had a problem. Was this a specific model/brand or something? To me this sounds a little like "I saw that fiats break down often, so I better not get a car" which is obviously silly
JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> environmentalists were like, "hey look, free energy," It's not free. It costs trilliions of dollars to build and maintain. I think it's worth it. But one place where the climate-change movement lost the plot was in underplaying costs and overplaying the doom.
- scoofy 7mo ago
  If I install solar panels, a battery, and a next gen breaker box in CA, even with premium equipment and no subsidies, I'm looking at a max payback period of like 20 years, right? At that point yea, it's effectively free energy. Is it an investment? Sure, but it's an investment that trivially pays for itself.
  - VK-pro 7mo ago
    I’m sleep deprived so maybe not the right words, but isn’t there an implicit IRR that a household would maintain and usually a 20 year payoff would be maybe not the first use of investment dollars? I feel maybe that’s more the problem here with renewables. It’s cheaper but not cheap enough to put the dollars there instead of somewhere else
    - scoofy 7mo ago
      I mean, the payback period is like 5 years if you count all the subsides. My point is only that, you can effectively take most of your house of the grid, even in an urban area, with a relatively short payback period, and an almost guaranteed return. Is it the most profitable place for investment dollars? Probably not, but it's effectively risk-free, and there are plenty of knock-on benefits, like having power in a blackout, and having the option of getting an EV in the future. I think most sensible people who are even moderately risk-averse would think that's a fairly winning deal when we're only talking about a small amount of up front capital.
      - Someone 7mo ago
        > Is it the most profitable place for investment dollars? Probably not, but it's effectively risk-free One could even say it is risk-negative. It decreases the risk one runs of future oil price hikes. If you buy solar cells, you buy futures on energy delivery at a guaranteed price.
zahlman 7mo ago
...What does induction cooking have to do with renewable energy?
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > What does induction cooking have to do with renewable energy? Gas stoves aren't renewable. For most countries, they're dependent on volatile exports.
  - zahlman 7mo ago
    See, when I initially wrote that comment, it legitimately did not occur to me that there was even such a thing as a "gas stove" until I walked away from the computer. In my world they're a strange novelty.
- fragmede 7mo ago
  Resistive electric stoves aren't super popular for cooking on. Gas stove use gas which can't be powered by traditional renewables. Induction cooking is competitive with gas cooking and can be powered by renewables.
- ctjr 7mo ago
  Some people (myself included) are quite attached to cooking with gas. Induction seems to be the best alternative and doesn't require non-renewable fuel.
- zahlman 7mo ago
  Seriously, people are going to downvote me for not automatically thinking of gas stoves, when I haven't even seen one in like over a decade?
thrance 7mo ago
When you realize that trillions have been spent on anti-renewables propaganda over the last half-century, it gets easier to understand. Many people have been indoctrinated into fighting tooth and nail for the right of oil companies to destroy the environment.