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Framing this as the EU's attempt is antieuropean propaganda. It is the Conservatives attempt. The EU parliament is the entity that shot it down last time.
by vrganj 7mo ago
Framing this as the EU's attempt is antieuropean propaganda.
It is the Conservatives attempt. The EU parliament is the entity that shot it down last time.
- ab5tract 7mo agoCan you clarify what you mean? The linked website makes it seem that the majority MEPs of the supporting countries are on board. Are all of the (listed as) supporting countries currently under conservative governments?
- vrganj 7mo agoTo quote the banner on said website: > The Conservatives (EPP) are attempting to force a new vote on Thursday (26th), seeking to reverse Parliament's NO on indiscriminate scanning. The vote itself is being forced by the EPP. This article by an MEP has more info: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/the-battle-over-chat-control-how-eu-governments-and-the-tech-lobby-are-trying-to-overturn-parliaments-vote-a-comprehensive-fact-check/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/the-battle-over-chat-contro...
- iso1631 7mo agoThere are two elements to the EU The Council, which is headed by the government of each member state in equal measure - similar to the Senate in the US And Parliament, which are directly elected by the people, with each member state having representitives in proportion to their population, so Germany has far more than Ireland. This is similar to Congress. Now this site says Germany supports it, but then says that MEPS > 49 oppose, 47 in favor (45 confirmed, 2 presumed based on government stance) I would thus infer that the "most member states" refer to the national governments (that were elected by their population) position and not the direct MEP position. However a quick look at the json it's loading and I can't see Now as the parliament has blocked it, a grouping, the "EPP" (Think Ronald Reagan type republicans) is trying to use their influence to bring it back to a vote. > "The Conservatives (EPP) are attempting to force a new vote on Thursday (26th), seeking to reverse Parliament's NO on indiscriminate scanning. This is a direct attack on democracy and blatant disregard for your right to privacy."
- sgt 7mo agoIs that fair? Ireland should surely have a say the same way Germany does in parliament too, if it's affecting Ireland just as much. If one considers countries as units.
- vrganj 7mo agoThat's the whole idea, the parliament doesn't. The Council is the representation of the countries. The Parliament of the people.
- sgt 7mo agoI get it.. my question wasn't exactly what I meant to ask. I meant isn't there some kind of compensating factor. So that a country with a 100 million doesn't completely and utterly outshine a small country of 4 million, even in the parliament? Or is the idea that the Council is sufficient to achieve this?
- vrganj 7mo agoI actually think the Council is more than sufficient to achieve this, we kind of see the opposite problem way more. Hungary, a country of 9M people, keeps vetoing stuff the rest of the Union wants to do. 450M people, held back by the despot ruling over a tiny fraction of them.
- iso1631 7mo agoIs it fair that California has more congresspeople than North Dakota? Parliament is the unit which represent the people Council (which is 1 country 1 vote) is what represents the countries.
- sgt 7mo agoYes it's fair that it has more to a degree, but North Dakota can't have literally proportional since it will completely swallowed up on Congress. How does this work in the US?
- AnssiH 7mo agoThe majority of the MEPs are not onboard mandatory scanning, otherwise that would've been passed already. The site is conflating mandatory scanning with voluntary scanning (status quo). The upcoming vote is about continuing the voluntary scanning (which would otherwise expire).
- vaylian 7mo agoThe "voluntary" scanning is still mass surveillance of private messages. We as technologist tend to rely on technical methods to protect our private data. But non-technical people should also enjoy confidential communication, even if they don't actively protect their conversations.
- lostmsu 7mo ago> voluntary scanning What is that? A setting in OS?
- u8080 7mo agoService could voluntary opt-out, like Pavel Durov did.
- 9dev 7mo agoThis. There's a very specific group of twisted people that drive this, but equating that with the entire EU is flat out wrong.
- u8080 7mo agoWho are those people?
- soulofmischief 7mo agoFight Chat Control is a website maintained by a European. It is no more anti-European than I, an American, speaking about the latest antics of our conservative-led government and saying, "The US government is attempting to ____".
- hellofriend_ 7mo agoIf you’re against the EU you’re with Hungary and if you’re with Hungary, you’re with Orban and Putin: an enemy of democracy
- soulofmischief 7mo agoWhat?
- ImJamal 7mo agoIt seems like it is bipartisan to me. Do you have the statistics to back up your claim?
- elzbardico 7mo agoEU is not a synonym of Europe. EU propagandists don't get to define what Europe means. Second. Who gave you the right to define antieuropean union propaganda as a sin. Some people may hate it, some people may love it, other want to change it. It was created by vote, surely it can be whatever the fuck the way the people want by vote.
- vrganj 7mo agoEU is a synonym for Europe in colloquial conversation the same way USA is a synonym for America.
- Findecanor 7mo ago[flagged]
- vrganj 7mo agoDas musst du jetzt aber mal den Amerikanern erklären ;-)
- Findecanor 7mo agoOder... sie könnten jemanden aus Süd- oder Mittelamerika fragen, was das Wort „Amerika“ für ihn bedeutet.
- vrganj 7mo agoEntiendo como se sienten los otros Americanos. But it doesn't change the fact of the matter that in English (and not only English! German, too, as demonstrated), these words have different meanings.
- GalaxyNova 7mo agothis is just wrong
- elzbardico 7mo ago
- Findecanor 7mo agoI don't follow EU politics that much, but I know that one of the strongest proponents for it has been from the Swedish Social Democratic party, which has dominated Swedish politics. So, in my view this is not really a "left" or "right" thing, but something that is pushed by people you could call "the establishment".
- vrganj 7mo agoThe vote has literally been scheduled by the EPP, the EU grouping of conservative parties.
- Pay08 7mo agoAnd that means only they can support it? This isn't the USA, there's no 2 party system where everything "we" do is good and everything "the other side" does is bad.
- vrganj 7mo agoI'm not saying only they support it, nor do I believe most groupings in the EU are "good". I'm only saying the ones currently working on overturning the parliament vote are the Conservatives, seeing how they're the ones trying to force a revote.
- hermanzegerman 7mo agoIt means they, the EPP, are the driving force behind the current effort.
- pcrh 7mo agoExactly. EU legislation is currently far more respecting of privacy than is legislation in the UK or the US. For various, and unclear, reasons, there is substantial backing to change this.
- EmbarrassedHelp 7mo agoIn the UK, Apple is now blocking users from using any web browser to access "non-PG" content unless the user submits to privacy violating age verification. Apple blocks you at the OS level, making VPNs useless.
- izacus 7mo agoYeah, it's like saying "USA wants to poison children still!" when a Republican files another deranged bill in their state.
- freehorse 7mo agoThe last version of chat control was pushed by Denmark, which presided the european council until december, and with a social democratic prime minister (coalition government with social democrats the majority). The "conservatives push for chat control" is not really accurate, a bit part of social democrats are also supporting it.
- vrganj 7mo agoThat is true, but this attempt is led by the Conservatives. Not more, not less.
- hermanzegerman 7mo agoMany people here seem to have great difficulty with reading comprehension
- freehorse 7mo agoAnd many people here clearly have memory of a goldfish. Chat control (in its different phases) has been brought up and promoted by both conservative\liberal and social democratic factions of the EU parliament. The fact that this time it was EPP that put forward the vote does not mean that just conservatives are the ones pushing for chat control. This is all a fantasy. Politics is about understanding things in a historical context, not about the last flashy headline and 2-line tweets.
- hermanzegerman 7mo agoThey are the ones pushing for it right now. And other all-time big brain ideas like Upload-Filters for copyright enforcement, or privatising the water sector also came from them.
- Pay08 7mo agoThis is how political messaging has worked since I was born.
- oytis 7mo agoEuropean Commission is basically as close to being EU's government as it can be, it is fair to say these are the people that represent EU now. Much like it's fair to say that US is bombing Iran even if not all of the US is doing that.