5 ms·

Hold on…that was an entirely fictional story? Is there some part of it that was based on real people?

bena 7mo ago
Same here. I thought it was completely fictional. So, I immediately looked it up. There was a real d'Artagnan, he was kind of a big deal, so Dumas wrote some stories based on a fictionalized version of the real d'Artagnan.
- bigstrat2003 7mo ago
  Wow, that's really cool. I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a real person (and that he is credited with inventing the butter knife!), but I didn't realize there were others.
  - fusslo 7mo ago
    D'Artagnan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Batz_de_Castelmore_d%27Artagnan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Batz_de_Castelmore_... Cardinal Mazarin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Mazarin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Mazarin Athos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_d%27Athos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_d%27Athos Porthos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_de_Porthau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_de_Porthau Aramis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Aramitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Aramitz Comte de Troisville (D'artagnan's mentor) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Troisville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Troisville All highly fictionalized and I have had trouble finding information on the real counterparts (aside from the Cardinal). I started learning about that period of history after listening to the D'Artagnan Romances in audiobook form. The other interesting thing is Gatien de Courtilz de Sanras wrote semi-fictional accounts of D'Artagnan, published 27 years after D'artagnan's death and 144 years before Dumas' The Three Musketeers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatien_de_Courtilz_de_Sandras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatien_de_Courtilz_de_Sandras ).
    - hodgesrm 7mo ago
      Don't forget the Duke of Buckingham - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Villiers,_1st_Duke_of_Buckingham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Villiers,_1st_Duke_of_B.... Dumas' fictionalized version was far better than the real person.
  - kergonath 7mo ago
    > I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a real person And he was more than a big deal. One of the most powerful people in Europe at the time.
  - expedition32 7mo ago
    Maastricht today is not a French city. The city was returned after a peace treaty. A hero and a heroic death in a pointless war.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- lo_zamoyski 7mo ago
  I had a similar experience with the characters in Sienkiewicz's Trilogy. A number of the fictional characters were amalgamations of actual historical figures, with added or modified histories. For example, the character of Sir Wołodyjowski is actually drawn from two figures with the same surname. (For those interested, Jerzy Hoffman has produced excellent film adaptations of these books, two while navigating communist censorship, which is why they were filmed in reverse order. In reading order: - "With Fire and Sword" (1999) [1] - "The Deluge" (1974) [0] (trailer for the significantly shortened 2014 director's cut [3]) - "The Colonel Wołodyjowski" [2] In my opinion, and this is widely regarded to be the case, the original 5+ hour "The Deluge" is the best of the three and frankly one of the best movies I've ever watched.) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdrKEEt_nc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdrKEEt_nc [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCESk2joFo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCESk2joFo8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFO4O4JNjXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFO4O4JNjXw [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfhvt1zrfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfhvt1zrfU
- brightball 7mo ago
  I read the original Dumas story a few years back. Never had any idea.
rags2riches 7mo ago
Some Swedes will be delighted to learn that not only was there a historical d'Artagnan, but also a real life cardinal named Mazarin. But I have yet to find a historical person named Loranga. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loranga,_Masarin_och_Dartanjang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loranga,_Masarin_och_Dartanjan...
- Bayart 7mo ago
  There were in fact two Mazarin cardinals. The one people know about, who happened to be one of the major statesmen in Europe at the time, and his brother who was notoriously useless.
  - Ylpertnodi 7mo ago
    > his brother who was notoriously useless. So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary classic] reference)
    - throw0101d 7mo ago
      > So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary classic] reference) Galileo had (illegitimate) daughters but was unable to find husbands for them, so their remaining options were to become nuns. One seems to have quite brilliant, but the other a drunk: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Daughter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Daughter Back in the day the Church was the social safety net of society, so many folks ended up in monasteries as a form of charity for folks that would perhaps otherwise would have no other way to support themselves.
      - jfengel 7mo ago
        Only if you were reasonably wealthy. Monasteries were not orphanages. You could sometimes dump a baby off there (they had deposit bins specifically for that), but they wouldn't raise it. They would usually find somebody else to take care of it. Monasteries did not have accept older children or adults, either. Children given to the church would often come with money for their care and feeding. The poor would often get turned away. A monastery could be a safe place to house offspring who didn't have a family who could (publicly) support them. They were also good places for second sons and other spare children, and with enough money donated they could work their way up in the church hierarchy to do the family some good. But it was a lousy social safety net.
pax 7mo ago
This autumn I have visited the Lavardens Castle which had an exhibition on D'Artagnan. Stole the English version of the explanations (QR codes, hosted incognito on their website) https://pax.github.io/playground/lavardens-dartagnan/ https://pax.github.io/playground/lavardens-dartagnan/
Starman_Jones 7mo ago
The three musketeers - fictional d'Artagnan - real Cardinal Richelieu - real Queen Anne - real Louis XIII - real France - fictional
- ternus 7mo ago
  I laughed so loudly it startled the cat
- jingojango2 7mo ago
  Sacrebleu !

bena 7mo ago

Same here. I thought it was completely fictional. So, I immediately looked it up. There was a real d'Artagnan, he was kind of a big deal, so Dumas wrote some stories based on a fictionalized version of the real d'Artagnan.

bigstrat2003 7mo ago
Wow, that's really cool. I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a real person (and that he is credited with inventing the butter knife!), but I didn't realize there were others.
- fusslo 7mo ago
  D'Artagnan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Batz_de_Castelmore_d%27Artagnan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Batz_de_Castelmore_... Cardinal Mazarin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Mazarin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Mazarin Athos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_d%27Athos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand_d%27Athos Porthos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_de_Porthau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_de_Porthau Aramis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Aramitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d%27Aramitz Comte de Troisville (D'artagnan's mentor) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Troisville https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Troisville All highly fictionalized and I have had trouble finding information on the real counterparts (aside from the Cardinal). I started learning about that period of history after listening to the D'Artagnan Romances in audiobook form. The other interesting thing is Gatien de Courtilz de Sanras wrote semi-fictional accounts of D'Artagnan, published 27 years after D'artagnan's death and 144 years before Dumas' The Three Musketeers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatien_de_Courtilz_de_Sandras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatien_de_Courtilz_de_Sandras ).
  - hodgesrm 7mo ago
    Don't forget the Duke of Buckingham - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Villiers,_1st_Duke_of_Buckingham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Villiers,_1st_Duke_of_B.... Dumas' fictionalized version was far better than the real person.
- kergonath 7mo ago
  > I knew that Cardinal Richelieu was a real person And he was more than a big deal. One of the most powerful people in Europe at the time.
- expedition32 7mo ago
  Maastricht today is not a French city. The city was returned after a peace treaty. A hero and a heroic death in a pointless war.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
lo_zamoyski 7mo ago
I had a similar experience with the characters in Sienkiewicz's Trilogy. A number of the fictional characters were amalgamations of actual historical figures, with added or modified histories. For example, the character of Sir Wołodyjowski is actually drawn from two figures with the same surname. (For those interested, Jerzy Hoffman has produced excellent film adaptations of these books, two while navigating communist censorship, which is why they were filmed in reverse order. In reading order: - "With Fire and Sword" (1999) [1] - "The Deluge" (1974) [0] (trailer for the significantly shortened 2014 director's cut [3]) - "The Colonel Wołodyjowski" [2] In my opinion, and this is widely regarded to be the case, the original 5+ hour "The Deluge" is the best of the three and frankly one of the best movies I've ever watched.) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdrKEEt_nc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdrKEEt_nc [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCESk2joFo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCESk2joFo8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFO4O4JNjXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFO4O4JNjXw [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfhvt1zrfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfhvt1zrfU
brightball 7mo ago
I read the original Dumas story a few years back. Never had any idea.

rags2riches 7mo ago

Some Swedes will be delighted to learn that not only was there a historical d'Artagnan, but also a real life cardinal named Mazarin. But I have yet to find a historical person named Loranga. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loranga,_Masarin_och_Dartanjang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loranga,_Masarin_och_Dartanjan...

Bayart 7mo ago
There were in fact two Mazarin cardinals. The one people know about, who happened to be one of the major statesmen in Europe at the time, and his brother who was notoriously useless.
- Ylpertnodi 7mo ago
  > his brother who was notoriously useless. So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary classic] reference)
  - throw0101d 7mo ago
    > So, he became a priest? (Father Ted [a literary classic] reference) Galileo had (illegitimate) daughters but was unable to find husbands for them, so their remaining options were to become nuns. One seems to have quite brilliant, but the other a drunk: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Daughter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Daughter Back in the day the Church was the social safety net of society, so many folks ended up in monasteries as a form of charity for folks that would perhaps otherwise would have no other way to support themselves.
    - jfengel 7mo ago
      Only if you were reasonably wealthy. Monasteries were not orphanages. You could sometimes dump a baby off there (they had deposit bins specifically for that), but they wouldn't raise it. They would usually find somebody else to take care of it. Monasteries did not have accept older children or adults, either. Children given to the church would often come with money for their care and feeding. The poor would often get turned away. A monastery could be a safe place to house offspring who didn't have a family who could (publicly) support them. They were also good places for second sons and other spare children, and with enough money donated they could work their way up in the church hierarchy to do the family some good. But it was a lousy social safety net.

pax 7mo ago

This autumn I have visited the Lavardens Castle which had an exhibition on D'Artagnan. Stole the English version of the explanations (QR codes, hosted incognito on their website) https://pax.github.io/playground/lavardens-dartagnan/ https://pax.github.io/playground/lavardens-dartagnan/

Starman_Jones 7mo ago

The three musketeers - fictional d'Artagnan - real Cardinal Richelieu - real Queen Anne - real Louis XIII - real France - fictional

ternus 7mo ago
I laughed so loudly it startled the cat
jingojango2 7mo ago
Sacrebleu !