7 ms·

Burner phones for all! Defund, disband, destroy DHS, ICE, CBP, TSA.

by righthand 7mo ago

next_xibalba 7mo ago
[flagged]
- vkou 7mo ago
  What social safety net? Is there some office that I can just show up without any papers and get free money?
  - mothballed 7mo ago
    You basically can for WIC, but that's about it. Although the other big one is public schooling is also almost always entitled to everyone at quite high cost (despite poor performance per dollar).
    - hedora 7mo ago
      Note that the performance / dollar is much worse for immigrants than for citizens. You still have to pay for things like social security, etc, but you don't get to collect those benefits. Before someone says "but illegal immigrants don't those taxes!", note that they actually do: If not, then their employer is engaged in tax fraud, which is much easier to prove and prosecute than trying to track down and check the immigration statues of each of their employees. The US government runs a huge profit on legal immigrants (above average job creation / economic growth), and on illegal immigrants (they pay for services they cannot utilize).
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        If they are employing people who are not eligible to work , they are already committing fraud
        vkou 7mo ago
        'Who' is doing work is hard to enforce. 'How you pay them' is easy. Most businesses do not handle enough cash to be able to pay a lot of staff off the books, and if you are doing it through the regular financial system, the tax man will find it very easy to make sure that you pay your dues.
        raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Every employer I worked for has forced me to prove I was eligible to work.
      - mothballed 7mo ago
        The lifetime public fiscal impact by some measures of an illegal immigrant is $-60k []. You're overlooking a few things like the fact it's estimated over half of illegal immigrant households have a US citizen child and then they start drawing welfare in the child's name on account of the fact the parents did not obtain legal immigration levels of financial independence before immigrating. Also on account that some are legally able to claim EITC in tax filing, some other similar benefit factors, as well as the fact undocumented immigrant use hospital ERs and then have no documented solvent individual to bill to (their employers also less likely to provide health insurance so they end up in ER instead of regular doctor). When you put it all together the annual public benefit is close to break even but over the period of decades counts up in the tens of thousands in the negative. I'm generally for open immigration but I'd agree that when you consider the totality things aren't set up yet to make sure enough benefits they get are shit-canned to make sure it's at least break even. Shit-canning all the benefits that pull them below zero is definitely a less orwellian way of breaking even than the ICE/CBP apparatus, I will give it that. [] https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_i...
- mathisfun123 7mo ago
  Do you know what the words "social safety net" mean? Hint: it's not whatever you think the police are handling.
- marssaxman 7mo ago
  You must be young. Many of us who are middle-aged or older clearly remember what the US was like before it created the present security apparatus, and "total collapse of the social safety net" is quite the opposite of what I would expect if we rolled it back. Wouldn't it be nice if we could use the billions we waste on this repressive jackboot-theater for an actual safety net instead? We could live in a less brutal society.
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    Last year I flew out of Costa Rica and London. They have the same security requirements except the removal of shoes as does getting on the Chunnel between London and Paris. Is there any country anywhere in the world that doesn’t have basically the same requirements? You seem to be glossing over all of the hijackings that happen back in the day.
    - marssaxman 7mo ago
      What do hijackings have to do with a social safety net? > They have the same security requirements Yes, the US has significant influence over international aviation security regulations. There are two reasons that no US airliner has been successfully hijacked in a quarter of a century, and neither has anything to do with TSA screening: first, cockpit doors are now locked during flight, and second, passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back.
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        > What do hijackings have to do with a social safety net? Many of us who are middle-aged or older clearly remember what the US was like before it created the present security apparatus > passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back. Yes passengers are going to rise up and fight people with guns? How do you fight back against a terrorist with a bomb on board? Even trained SWAT teams basically know that if you try to take over a plane from terrorists, who ever goes in front is going to get shot at, aisles are the perfect kill zone. Just from me flying on a plane as much as I do, the perfect way to take over a plane would be to book first class tickets in the front of the plane - less crowded, usually with people who are less willing to fight back and you’re not surrounded by people on both sides and sweep the aisle. This reminds me of the yokels running around in the South playing militia in the woods thinking their cache of guns can take on the US military or even a well trained local SWAT force. Everyone thinks they are Rambo
- hedora 7mo ago
  None of those organizations do anything to help regular people. They're all just creeping tentacles of fascism. (Most of them either didn't exist in the 1990s, or are unrecognizable now.) If they were defunded, we could spend the money on fire departments (how many cities has the US lost in the last few years to forest fires, and how many cities to immigrants?), local police (to prosecute property and white collar crimes, and even government / police corruption), and mental health care (to reduce or even eliminate mass shootings - this worked in the US in the past, and works in every other country on earth right now). Also, "social safety net" refers to things like social security, disability, not illegal deportations of non-criminals or what ever those organizations are focused on these days. The actual social safety net is on teetering on the edge of collapse because it's funding was stolen from the organizations you are defending.
- cdrnsf 7mo ago
  ICE is a relatively new creation and DHS itself is a massive organizational Frankenstein's monster. Both can and should be dissolved.
- tencentshill 7mo ago
  They didn't exist before 2001. Congress can create alternatives that actually serve and protect the people.
htx80nerd 7mo ago
[flagged]
- vonneumannstan 7mo ago
  So weird that railing against government overreach is now considered a leftist position when it was a fundamental right position for decades... You could not lick the boot harder if you tried.
crimsoneer 7mo ago
[flagged]
- moribvndvs 7mo ago
  We lived in caves with no society before ICE?
- hypeatei 7mo ago
  Disbanding draconion intelligence apparatus that didn't exist before 2001 would not mean we're back to living in caves.
  - hedora 7mo ago
    It would mean we'd have the right to live in caves without presenting papers though.
- 4MOAisgoodenuf 7mo ago
  Do you not remember life before ICE and TSA or are you not old enough to legally rent a car?
  - mindslight 7mo ago
    Your assertion of age is way off. Most people are going to be well into adulthood by the time they've flown enough to perceive the "security" process as its own thing.
    - hedora 7mo ago
      DHS was created after 9/11. Most car rental places won't rent to people under the age of 25. There's maybe a few month period between the birth day cutoff and the founding of the DHS.
      - mindslight 7mo ago
        Read my comment again. The assertion I was responding to was "Do you not remember", not were you not alive. I'm well past the minimum age for renting a car, but I would not say that I remember airport security before the TSA - because I didn't experience it enough for it to have left any impression. I do remember a much more recent trip to a foreign country, where on the return we were just walking through an airport hallway when I realized we had just gone through the security point. That is the way to do things.

Burner phones for all! Defund, disband, destroy DHS, ICE, CBP, TSA.

next_xibalba 7mo ago

[flagged]

vkou 7mo ago
What social safety net? Is there some office that I can just show up without any papers and get free money?
- mothballed 7mo ago
  You basically can for WIC, but that's about it. Although the other big one is public schooling is also almost always entitled to everyone at quite high cost (despite poor performance per dollar).
  - hedora 7mo ago
    Note that the performance / dollar is much worse for immigrants than for citizens. You still have to pay for things like social security, etc, but you don't get to collect those benefits. Before someone says "but illegal immigrants don't those taxes!", note that they actually do: If not, then their employer is engaged in tax fraud, which is much easier to prove and prosecute than trying to track down and check the immigration statues of each of their employees. The US government runs a huge profit on legal immigrants (above average job creation / economic growth), and on illegal immigrants (they pay for services they cannot utilize).
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      If they are employing people who are not eligible to work , they are already committing fraud
      - vkou 7mo ago
        'Who' is doing work is hard to enforce. 'How you pay them' is easy. Most businesses do not handle enough cash to be able to pay a lot of staff off the books, and if you are doing it through the regular financial system, the tax man will find it very easy to make sure that you pay your dues.
        raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Every employer I worked for has forced me to prove I was eligible to work.
    - mothballed 7mo ago
      The lifetime public fiscal impact by some measures of an illegal immigrant is $-60k []. You're overlooking a few things like the fact it's estimated over half of illegal immigrant households have a US citizen child and then they start drawing welfare in the child's name on account of the fact the parents did not obtain legal immigration levels of financial independence before immigrating. Also on account that some are legally able to claim EITC in tax filing, some other similar benefit factors, as well as the fact undocumented immigrant use hospital ERs and then have no documented solvent individual to bill to (their employers also less likely to provide health insurance so they end up in ER instead of regular doctor). When you put it all together the annual public benefit is close to break even but over the period of decades counts up in the tens of thousands in the negative. I'm generally for open immigration but I'd agree that when you consider the totality things aren't set up yet to make sure enough benefits they get are shit-canned to make sure it's at least break even. Shit-canning all the benefits that pull them below zero is definitely a less orwellian way of breaking even than the ICE/CBP apparatus, I will give it that. [] https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_i...
mathisfun123 7mo ago
Do you know what the words "social safety net" mean? Hint: it's not whatever you think the police are handling.
marssaxman 7mo ago
You must be young. Many of us who are middle-aged or older clearly remember what the US was like before it created the present security apparatus, and "total collapse of the social safety net" is quite the opposite of what I would expect if we rolled it back. Wouldn't it be nice if we could use the billions we waste on this repressive jackboot-theater for an actual safety net instead? We could live in a less brutal society.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  Last year I flew out of Costa Rica and London. They have the same security requirements except the removal of shoes as does getting on the Chunnel between London and Paris. Is there any country anywhere in the world that doesn’t have basically the same requirements? You seem to be glossing over all of the hijackings that happen back in the day.
  - marssaxman 7mo ago
    What do hijackings have to do with a social safety net? > They have the same security requirements Yes, the US has significant influence over international aviation security regulations. There are two reasons that no US airliner has been successfully hijacked in a quarter of a century, and neither has anything to do with TSA screening: first, cockpit doors are now locked during flight, and second, passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back.
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      > What do hijackings have to do with a social safety net? Many of us who are middle-aged or older clearly remember what the US was like before it created the present security apparatus > passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back. Yes passengers are going to rise up and fight people with guns? How do you fight back against a terrorist with a bomb on board? Even trained SWAT teams basically know that if you try to take over a plane from terrorists, who ever goes in front is going to get shot at, aisles are the perfect kill zone. Just from me flying on a plane as much as I do, the perfect way to take over a plane would be to book first class tickets in the front of the plane - less crowded, usually with people who are less willing to fight back and you’re not surrounded by people on both sides and sweep the aisle. This reminds me of the yokels running around in the South playing militia in the woods thinking their cache of guns can take on the US military or even a well trained local SWAT force. Everyone thinks they are Rambo
hedora 7mo ago
None of those organizations do anything to help regular people. They're all just creeping tentacles of fascism. (Most of them either didn't exist in the 1990s, or are unrecognizable now.) If they were defunded, we could spend the money on fire departments (how many cities has the US lost in the last few years to forest fires, and how many cities to immigrants?), local police (to prosecute property and white collar crimes, and even government / police corruption), and mental health care (to reduce or even eliminate mass shootings - this worked in the US in the past, and works in every other country on earth right now). Also, "social safety net" refers to things like social security, disability, not illegal deportations of non-criminals or what ever those organizations are focused on these days. The actual social safety net is on teetering on the edge of collapse because it's funding was stolen from the organizations you are defending.
cdrnsf 7mo ago
ICE is a relatively new creation and DHS itself is a massive organizational Frankenstein's monster. Both can and should be dissolved.
tencentshill 7mo ago
They didn't exist before 2001. Congress can create alternatives that actually serve and protect the people.

htx80nerd 7mo ago

[flagged]

vonneumannstan 7mo ago
So weird that railing against government overreach is now considered a leftist position when it was a fundamental right position for decades... You could not lick the boot harder if you tried.

crimsoneer 7mo ago

[flagged]

moribvndvs 7mo ago
We lived in caves with no society before ICE?
hypeatei 7mo ago
Disbanding draconion intelligence apparatus that didn't exist before 2001 would not mean we're back to living in caves.
- hedora 7mo ago
  It would mean we'd have the right to live in caves without presenting papers though.
4MOAisgoodenuf 7mo ago
Do you not remember life before ICE and TSA or are you not old enough to legally rent a car?
- mindslight 7mo ago
  Your assertion of age is way off. Most people are going to be well into adulthood by the time they've flown enough to perceive the "security" process as its own thing.
  - hedora 7mo ago
    DHS was created after 9/11. Most car rental places won't rent to people under the age of 25. There's maybe a few month period between the birth day cutoff and the founding of the DHS.
    - mindslight 7mo ago
      Read my comment again. The assertion I was responding to was "Do you not remember", not were you not alive. I'm well past the minimum age for renting a car, but I would not say that I remember airport security before the TSA - because I didn't experience it enough for it to have left any impression. I do remember a much more recent trip to a foreign country, where on the return we were just walking through an airport hallway when I realized we had just gone through the security point. That is the way to do things.