6 ms·

They voted for a proven con-man because they hated the idea of a black woman being president. US Racism - still going strong after 250 years...

gedy 6mo ago
There are plenty of excellent black women leaders - Kamala Harris was not one of those. Do not excuse the Democratic Party here with their dysfunctional internal infighting with just being down to racism.
- bdangubic 6mo ago
  you should familirize yourself with Kamala Harris before saying she is not a leader - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris While Democratic Party could have picked another candidate, to appease comments like this (I heard this too many times by a lot of very, very smart people so I am not demeaning your comment/opinion in any way) that other candidate would have been a white male
  - gedy 6mo ago
    My point is that she was a poor candidate both times, and OP blaming this all on racism gives the DNC a pass when they really need to fix themselves. Obama would have beat Trump handily (a hypothetical), and not lost due to racism.
    - bdangubic 6mo ago
      0% chance Obama would have beat DJT in 2024, 0!
    - rendall 6mo ago
      > gives the DNC a pass when they really need to fix themselves I've been saying this since 2016, when HRC ran on a campaign of calling her opponents sexists and then blaming Russia for her loss. Sadly, they just shuffled aparatchniks around instead of cleaning house. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was put on the House Appropriations committee after stepping down from DNC chair. Donna Brazile was rewarded with the DNC chairmanship after slipping CNN town hall questions in advance to HRC. I suspect that the self-reflection to fix themselves is just not in the DNC DNA, sadly. America runs better when both parties are effective. Currently, neither are.
      - locknitpicker 6mo ago
        > I've been saying this since 2016, when HRC ran on a campaign of calling her opponents sexists and then blaming Russia for her loss. Trump's admin is overtly sexist, and Russian interference in the 2024 elections is extensive and well documented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... You need to take a hard look at yourself and iron out all that cognitive dissonance.
        rendall 6mo ago
        I talked about DNC governance and accountability after the 2016 primary, not denying that Russia conducts influence operations or that sexism exists in politics. Pointing to Russian interference in 2024 does not answer whether the DNC cleaned house after 2016, and it does not change the fact that Wasserman Schultz landed on Appropriations and Brazile became interim DNC chair. Weird that you would divert main factual points into non-sequiturs and then accuse me of cognitive dissonance. If you are free of cognitive dissonance, you can now address the points I made, not ones I did not.
    - pfannkuchen 6mo ago
      Is it strange that Obama and Harris are each only part black, but people refer to them as being black? If we are like “black people can do everything” (which is true, of course), why are the political figureheads of that progressive dimension only half black? And, beyond that, the black half of each is not even African American! Harris is African Jamaican, and Obama is African African. If anything, in retrospect the birther thing back then seems like it may have been some absurdist well poisoning on totally valid criticism of Obama’s real heritage vs the media optics of same. I thought civil rights was for African Americans? Why have all the political figureheads African Americans have, or have been, rallied behind, not themselves been African American at all? Quite strange.
      - defrost 6mo ago
        > Is it strange that Obama and Harris are each only part black, but people refer to them as being black? Yeah - the "One Drop" PoV was beyond strange: The one-drop rule was a legal principle of racial classification that was prominent in the 20th-century United States. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of Black African ancestry ("one drop" of "black blood") is considered black (Negro or colored in historical terms). It is an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status, regardless of proportion of ancestry in different groups. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule > I thought civil rights was for African Americans? It was for the benefit of anyone sent to the back of the bus, forced to drink from other fountains, lynched, etc. That included minorities other than "classic Black" and all the people treated as Black despite not appearing black.
        pfannkuchen 6mo ago
        I’m confused. From tone you seem to be comparing what I’m saying to the one drop rule as if this doesn’t support what I’m saying, but it does support what I’m saying. Why are progressives using the one drop rule?
        6mo ago
- mindslight 6mo ago
  Milquetoast uninspiring leader should still beat someone who outright hates everything about our country, divides rather than leads, and plans to sell our institutions for scrap value while putting the proceeds in his own pocket. Although I think the people blaming it on racism are hopeful. The real answer is that it struck a chord with people who do not want women in leadership positions. I remember reading an article when Harris was nominated, about how it was set up to be a "historic moment". Indeed, it was.
  - fakedang 6mo ago
    It was historic in the sense that there were no primaries, and that she was chosen by an embittered Biden to precisely result in this outcome.
    - mindslight 6mo ago
      I hadn't heard that motive specifically, care to send any links that substantiate it? (to be clear, the article was of course using "historic" in the sense of the DEI groupthink - since there's no way Trump could win then won't it be super historic to have a Black woman president) (and disclaimer: criticism of DEI virtue signalling is in no way an endorsement of Maggot vice signalling)
      - fakedang 6mo ago
        https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/joe-biden-legacy-kamala-harris-2024 https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/joe-biden-legacy... This was not a move by Biden to position Kamala for a loss, but he certainly did not want Pelosi and the Democratic establishment to gloat on a win. Which is why he immediately endorsed Kamala for the presidency, right after announcing he was stepping down from the race. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9fSK2AR594 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9fSK2AR594 Pelosi suggested there should have been an open primary after Biden dropped out. But Biden's endorsement ensured that they could not backtrack from Harris.
    - red-iron-pine 6mo ago
- locknitpicker 6mo ago
  > There are plenty of excellent black women leaders - Kamala Harris was not one of those. Do not excuse the Democratic Party (...) As a non-USian this blend of opinion just reeks of blame-shifting. You guys have a two-party system. One proposed a candidate that continued Biden's administration. The other was this hot mess. You guys picked this hot mess over Biden's regime. If you looked at Trump and somehow decided a second Trump administration was better than a continuation of Biden's administration, the blame lays square on you. Not on Kamala. Not on the democratic party. Not on DEI. Nothing. Own your mistakes. Do better.
  - JohnnyLarue 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - nozzlegear 6mo ago
    > non-USian We prefer to be called Americans, which is also the correct demonym; it derives from United States of America, and isn't used by any other country in English. If you can call someone from South Africa a "South African" instead of an "SAian," then the same logic applies to make someone from the United States an "American."
    - ndsipa_pomu 6mo ago
      However, Canada and Mexico are also in the North American continent, so "North American" also refers to Canadians and Mexicans, and that's specifying which part of the Americas we're talking about. The term "American" can equally apply to someone living in Brazil or Peru (or at least "South American"). To my mind, it always strikes me as hubris for the USA to pretend to be the whole American continent.
      - nozzlegear 6mo ago
        [dead]
chistev 6mo ago
But they had voted for a black man a few elections ago?
JohnnyLarue 6mo ago
[dead]
dominotw 6mo ago
I voted for kamala but i didnt find her appealing at all. i could never get a read on her, it was so strange.
red-iron-pine 6mo ago
if racism is the main driver then why did Hilary lose?
- 20after4 6mo ago
  Because the misogyny is even more pervasive.
  - coldtea 6mo ago
    Must be good to have an answer putting others down for everything without ever considering their perspective
reducesuffering 6mo ago
To be fair, we also ended up with a proven con-man because Southern Democrats don't approve of gays enough to win the primary for Buttigieg and we ended up with Biden only 1 term.
coldtea 6mo ago
>They voted for a proven con-man because they hated the idea of a black woman being president. US Racism - still going strong after 250 years... Same US that put a black man in the house for two terms? Maybe they just hated the idea of a shallow-as-they-come transparently-just-a-puppet empty-headed political careerist being president...
- halJordan 6mo ago
  In fact no. It's well documented that the voters who put Trump in the White House weren't voting until Trump galvanized them. It's also been well known for centuries that white men are the single largest demographic in the US and that it is also the most fragmented one
  - coldtea 6mo ago
    >It's well documented that the voters who put Trump in the White House weren't voting until Trump galvanized them It's even more well documented that Kamala is a "shallow-as-they-come transparently-just-a-puppet empty-headed political careerist", that even her own Party heads dismissed as inadequate decoration until Biden's faculties went even more downhill. >It's also been well known for centuries that white men are the single largest demographic in the US and that it is also the most fragmented one Which makes sense, since, native americans aside, it was such demographics that first populated and established the US, the overwhelming majority of the rest came later. But it's irrelevant as an argument to what we're discussing.

gedy 6mo ago

There are plenty of excellent black women leaders - Kamala Harris was not one of those. Do not excuse the Democratic Party here with their dysfunctional internal infighting with just being down to racism.

bdangubic 6mo ago
you should familirize yourself with Kamala Harris before saying she is not a leader - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris While Democratic Party could have picked another candidate, to appease comments like this (I heard this too many times by a lot of very, very smart people so I am not demeaning your comment/opinion in any way) that other candidate would have been a white male
- gedy 6mo ago
  My point is that she was a poor candidate both times, and OP blaming this all on racism gives the DNC a pass when they really need to fix themselves. Obama would have beat Trump handily (a hypothetical), and not lost due to racism.
  - bdangubic 6mo ago
    0% chance Obama would have beat DJT in 2024, 0!
  - rendall 6mo ago
    > gives the DNC a pass when they really need to fix themselves I've been saying this since 2016, when HRC ran on a campaign of calling her opponents sexists and then blaming Russia for her loss. Sadly, they just shuffled aparatchniks around instead of cleaning house. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was put on the House Appropriations committee after stepping down from DNC chair. Donna Brazile was rewarded with the DNC chairmanship after slipping CNN town hall questions in advance to HRC. I suspect that the self-reflection to fix themselves is just not in the DNC DNA, sadly. America runs better when both parties are effective. Currently, neither are.
    - locknitpicker 6mo ago
      > I've been saying this since 2016, when HRC ran on a campaign of calling her opponents sexists and then blaming Russia for her loss. Trump's admin is overtly sexist, and Russian interference in the 2024 elections is extensive and well documented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... You need to take a hard look at yourself and iron out all that cognitive dissonance.
      - rendall 6mo ago
        I talked about DNC governance and accountability after the 2016 primary, not denying that Russia conducts influence operations or that sexism exists in politics. Pointing to Russian interference in 2024 does not answer whether the DNC cleaned house after 2016, and it does not change the fact that Wasserman Schultz landed on Appropriations and Brazile became interim DNC chair. Weird that you would divert main factual points into non-sequiturs and then accuse me of cognitive dissonance. If you are free of cognitive dissonance, you can now address the points I made, not ones I did not.
  - pfannkuchen 6mo ago
    Is it strange that Obama and Harris are each only part black, but people refer to them as being black? If we are like “black people can do everything” (which is true, of course), why are the political figureheads of that progressive dimension only half black? And, beyond that, the black half of each is not even African American! Harris is African Jamaican, and Obama is African African. If anything, in retrospect the birther thing back then seems like it may have been some absurdist well poisoning on totally valid criticism of Obama’s real heritage vs the media optics of same. I thought civil rights was for African Americans? Why have all the political figureheads African Americans have, or have been, rallied behind, not themselves been African American at all? Quite strange.
    - defrost 6mo ago
      > Is it strange that Obama and Harris are each only part black, but people refer to them as being black? Yeah - the "One Drop" PoV was beyond strange: The one-drop rule was a legal principle of racial classification that was prominent in the 20th-century United States. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of Black African ancestry ("one drop" of "black blood") is considered black (Negro or colored in historical terms). It is an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status, regardless of proportion of ancestry in different groups. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule > I thought civil rights was for African Americans? It was for the benefit of anyone sent to the back of the bus, forced to drink from other fountains, lynched, etc. That included minorities other than "classic Black" and all the people treated as Black despite not appearing black.
      - pfannkuchen 6mo ago
        I’m confused. From tone you seem to be comparing what I’m saying to the one drop rule as if this doesn’t support what I’m saying, but it does support what I’m saying. Why are progressives using the one drop rule?
        6mo ago
mindslight 6mo ago
Milquetoast uninspiring leader should still beat someone who outright hates everything about our country, divides rather than leads, and plans to sell our institutions for scrap value while putting the proceeds in his own pocket. Although I think the people blaming it on racism are hopeful. The real answer is that it struck a chord with people who do not want women in leadership positions. I remember reading an article when Harris was nominated, about how it was set up to be a "historic moment". Indeed, it was.
- fakedang 6mo ago
  It was historic in the sense that there were no primaries, and that she was chosen by an embittered Biden to precisely result in this outcome.
  - mindslight 6mo ago
    I hadn't heard that motive specifically, care to send any links that substantiate it? (to be clear, the article was of course using "historic" in the sense of the DEI groupthink - since there's no way Trump could win then won't it be super historic to have a Black woman president) (and disclaimer: criticism of DEI virtue signalling is in no way an endorsement of Maggot vice signalling)
    - fakedang 6mo ago
      https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/joe-biden-legacy-kamala-harris-2024 https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/15/politics/joe-biden-legacy... This was not a move by Biden to position Kamala for a loss, but he certainly did not want Pelosi and the Democratic establishment to gloat on a win. Which is why he immediately endorsed Kamala for the presidency, right after announcing he was stepping down from the race. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9fSK2AR594 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9fSK2AR594 Pelosi suggested there should have been an open primary after Biden dropped out. But Biden's endorsement ensured that they could not backtrack from Harris.
  - red-iron-pine 6mo ago
locknitpicker 6mo ago
> There are plenty of excellent black women leaders - Kamala Harris was not one of those. Do not excuse the Democratic Party (...) As a non-USian this blend of opinion just reeks of blame-shifting. You guys have a two-party system. One proposed a candidate that continued Biden's administration. The other was this hot mess. You guys picked this hot mess over Biden's regime. If you looked at Trump and somehow decided a second Trump administration was better than a continuation of Biden's administration, the blame lays square on you. Not on Kamala. Not on the democratic party. Not on DEI. Nothing. Own your mistakes. Do better.
- JohnnyLarue 6mo ago
  [dead]
- nozzlegear 6mo ago
  > non-USian We prefer to be called Americans, which is also the correct demonym; it derives from United States of America, and isn't used by any other country in English. If you can call someone from South Africa a "South African" instead of an "SAian," then the same logic applies to make someone from the United States an "American."
  - ndsipa_pomu 6mo ago
    However, Canada and Mexico are also in the North American continent, so "North American" also refers to Canadians and Mexicans, and that's specifying which part of the Americas we're talking about. The term "American" can equally apply to someone living in Brazil or Peru (or at least "South American"). To my mind, it always strikes me as hubris for the USA to pretend to be the whole American continent.
    - nozzlegear 6mo ago
      [dead]

chistev 6mo ago

But they had voted for a black man a few elections ago?

JohnnyLarue 6mo ago

[dead]

dominotw 6mo ago

I voted for kamala but i didnt find her appealing at all. i could never get a read on her, it was so strange.

red-iron-pine 6mo ago

if racism is the main driver then why did Hilary lose?

20after4 6mo ago
Because the misogyny is even more pervasive.
- coldtea 6mo ago
  Must be good to have an answer putting others down for everything without ever considering their perspective

reducesuffering 6mo ago

To be fair, we also ended up with a proven con-man because Southern Democrats don't approve of gays enough to win the primary for Buttigieg and we ended up with Biden only 1 term.

coldtea 6mo ago

>They voted for a proven con-man because they hated the idea of a black woman being president. US Racism - still going strong after 250 years... Same US that put a black man in the house for two terms? Maybe they just hated the idea of a shallow-as-they-come transparently-just-a-puppet empty-headed political careerist being president...

halJordan 6mo ago
In fact no. It's well documented that the voters who put Trump in the White House weren't voting until Trump galvanized them. It's also been well known for centuries that white men are the single largest demographic in the US and that it is also the most fragmented one
- coldtea 6mo ago
  >It's well documented that the voters who put Trump in the White House weren't voting until Trump galvanized them It's even more well documented that Kamala is a "shallow-as-they-come transparently-just-a-puppet empty-headed political careerist", that even her own Party heads dismissed as inadequate decoration until Biden's faculties went even more downhill. >It's also been well known for centuries that white men are the single largest demographic in the US and that it is also the most fragmented one Which makes sense, since, native americans aside, it was such demographics that first populated and established the US, the overwhelming majority of the rest came later. But it's irrelevant as an argument to what we're discussing.