4 ms·

That assumes the new system will be better. History tells us otherwise

embedding-shape 6mo ago
Well, local history in the US, judged by most current Americans, would probably say the current system is better than the previous one, and the current one spawned from a revolution. Maybe the second (third?) time it'll incrementally improve at least.
- School-Cotton 6mo ago
  The current system is the result of hundreds of years of gradual democratization and economic development, not the revolution. For an example of the US without the American Revolution, look at Canada. They’re doing fine. Here in the US, the Revolution didn’t cause life to change at all for the vast majority of people. Whether the majority of people believe that or not has more to do with the place of the Revolution in our national mythology than with what actually happened in reality.
- AftHurrahWinch 6mo ago
  The Revolution allowed a new system to be built, but it is a teleological fallacy to point to the current system as the result. Centuries of trial, error, and institutional hardening led to the system current Americans would judge. The first post-revolution organizational system of the US, described in the Articles of Confederation, is very different than the difficult and contingent pivot to a federal system. Almost a million US citizens died in the transition.
d1sxeyes 6mo ago
Almost every new system of governance has been better than what came before.
- intended 6mo ago
  This... is a very selective remembering of history, no?
- johngossman 6mo ago
  "Almost every" is a very strong statement. But even granted that, the interregnum periods (civil wars and revolutions) tend to be so horrific that they are wise to avoid. In fact, people like Plato, Machiavelli, and Hobbes who lived through revolutions tended to come to the cynical conclusion that any system of government was better than a civil war. I don't agree with that conclusion, but I'd rather see the system reform itself than jump immediately to "tear up the constitution and start over"
- MSFT_Edging 6mo ago
  No matter how much you hate Communists, you must admit the fall of the USSR was catastrophic in terms of quality of life and life expectancy. All the public goods and services were sold off en masse and children were driven to prostitution to avoid starvation. ~30 years later all the quick investors of the privatization run the country and have been sending all their able bodied men into a drone-based meat grinder with no end in sight.
surgical_fire 6mo ago
Which is why we are still living in nomadic tribes following chieftains. No wait
- johngossman 6mo ago
  It just feels that way sometimes
vkou 6mo ago
If revolutions inevitably make government worse, humanity collectively must be in the worst form of government in human history.

Well, local history in the US, judged by most current Americans, would probably say the current system is better than the previous one, and the current one spawned from a revolution. Maybe the second (third?) time it'll incrementally improve at least.

School-Cotton 6mo ago
The current system is the result of hundreds of years of gradual democratization and economic development, not the revolution. For an example of the US without the American Revolution, look at Canada. They’re doing fine. Here in the US, the Revolution didn’t cause life to change at all for the vast majority of people. Whether the majority of people believe that or not has more to do with the place of the Revolution in our national mythology than with what actually happened in reality.
AftHurrahWinch 6mo ago
The Revolution allowed a new system to be built, but it is a teleological fallacy to point to the current system as the result. Centuries of trial, error, and institutional hardening led to the system current Americans would judge. The first post-revolution organizational system of the US, described in the Articles of Confederation, is very different than the difficult and contingent pivot to a federal system. Almost a million US citizens died in the transition.

d1sxeyes 6mo ago

Almost every new system of governance has been better than what came before.

intended 6mo ago
This... is a very selective remembering of history, no?
johngossman 6mo ago
"Almost every" is a very strong statement. But even granted that, the interregnum periods (civil wars and revolutions) tend to be so horrific that they are wise to avoid. In fact, people like Plato, Machiavelli, and Hobbes who lived through revolutions tended to come to the cynical conclusion that any system of government was better than a civil war. I don't agree with that conclusion, but I'd rather see the system reform itself than jump immediately to "tear up the constitution and start over"
MSFT_Edging 6mo ago
No matter how much you hate Communists, you must admit the fall of the USSR was catastrophic in terms of quality of life and life expectancy. All the public goods and services were sold off en masse and children were driven to prostitution to avoid starvation. ~30 years later all the quick investors of the privatization run the country and have been sending all their able bodied men into a drone-based meat grinder with no end in sight.

surgical_fire 6mo ago

Which is why we are still living in nomadic tribes following chieftains. No wait

johngossman 6mo ago
It just feels that way sometimes

vkou 6mo ago

If revolutions inevitably make government worse, humanity collectively must be in the worst form of government in human history.