3 ms·

Have you ever seen those videos filming London streets in the 1970s? They are absolutely packed with groups of two or three people, not going places, but just s

by sph 7mo ago

Have you ever seen those videos filming London streets in the 1970s? They are absolutely packed with groups of two or three people, not going places, but just standing there, chatting, as if they have nowhere else to be. It is something most of us have never experienced in any form and the change has happened over long enough timescales that we are used to our streets of strangers just going about their lives, the external world just a physical inconvenience to traverse as quickly as possible, not the real world where one just exists.

germinalphrase 7mo ago
My perspective is very simple: our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be. We have better heating/air conditioning, endless television/video games/entertainment, large refrigerators, lower density, etc and so on. Back then, home covered a narrower set of needs - so the default option was to spend time elsewhere, even if it was just to escape the noise/heat/smells/smoke of home for a minute.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  > our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be. Yes. And public spaces are significantly less comfortable (and more expensive) than they used to be
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
- ankaz 7mo ago
  [dead]
badpun 7mo ago
I have plenty of such scenes in my city still, but these people are usually either pensioners, or local unemployed drunks who have an entire day to fill. People with jobs don't hang outside, unless they're with their kids.
acdha 7mo ago
I think a lot of it comes back to cars: many people traded longer commutes for suburban houses, which has advantages but comes at the cost of not having much to do without driving somewhere and less free time around other people. This is especially bad for parents when they don’t feel comfortable letting their kids walk / bike around the neighborhood since that means more time spent playing chauffeur.
- graemep 7mo ago
  London in the 70s (which GP was talking about) already had long commutes (large suburbs and lots of commuter towns) and most households had cars. Roads are much safer and public transport is good so kids can get around by themselves. One big difference is that more women work: stay at home mums used to strengthen communities - doing voluntary work, organising things. Now that is mostly done by retired people so the pool is smaller and fewer households have someone directly involved. Another way to look at it is that the working hours for a similar household has increased greatly so the household as a whole has less time to contribute to the community. Another factor is that people move around more. Again, very noticeable in London where a lot of people have moved out because of high house prices. People do not near people they grew up with.
billfor 7mo ago
[flagged]
- exe34 7mo ago
  By this logic, people should still be hanging out in the streets in all those villages where the master race dominates. And yet, we still only observe the bums and the retired hanging out with a day to fill. Any idea how that impacts your hypothesis?
- graemep 7mo ago
  You are conflating skin colour and culture. A non-white immigrant who speaks fluent English, and is from a country with a common law legal system and British influenced culture can integrate far better than someone from a European country who does not speak good English. There are more people in London whose "main" language is Romanian, Spanish or Polish than any other languages. https://data.london.gov.uk/download/vqlo7/c3df8c46-b070-439c-951b-10cb91ce8ae5/Census%202021%20release%20on%20Ethnicity%2C%20National%20Identity%2C%20Language%20and%20Religion.pdf https://data.london.gov.uk/download/vqlo7/c3df8c46-b070-439c... Only 4% do not speak English well. London has had a large foreign born population and a lot of immigration for a long time and was fine in the 1990s so i doubt things have changed as much as you think in recent years.
- ThePowerOfFuet 7mo ago
  What fucking racist shit is this?!
m_fayer 7mo ago
I think an undersung and underquantified factor here is how much less time people have. For reasons psychological and socioeconomic, across class lines, it seems we all have a mental calendar and todo list in our heads now, a tyrant that will always point out that aimless chatter is not appropriate, lest we fall even further behind.
rendaw 7mo ago
Were streets the real 3rd places? I always wondered how commoners (?) could afford to go to a pub every day to socialize, or if it was cheap, how the pubs could survive with a bunch of people who were just hanging out day after day.
- tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
  Wages were much lower. As were property prices. Legislative demands were also simpler.
  - navigate8310 7mo ago
    Laws are only simpler in hindsight

by sph 7mo ago

germinalphrase 7mo ago

My perspective is very simple: our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be. We have better heating/air conditioning, endless television/video games/entertainment, large refrigerators, lower density, etc and so on. Back then, home covered a narrower set of needs - so the default option was to spend time elsewhere, even if it was just to escape the noise/heat/smells/smoke of home for a minute.

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
> our homes are simply a lot more comfortable than they used to be. Yes. And public spaces are significantly less comfortable (and more expensive) than they used to be
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
ankaz 7mo ago
[dead]

badpun 7mo ago

I have plenty of such scenes in my city still, but these people are usually either pensioners, or local unemployed drunks who have an entire day to fill. People with jobs don't hang outside, unless they're with their kids.

acdha 7mo ago

I think a lot of it comes back to cars: many people traded longer commutes for suburban houses, which has advantages but comes at the cost of not having much to do without driving somewhere and less free time around other people. This is especially bad for parents when they don’t feel comfortable letting their kids walk / bike around the neighborhood since that means more time spent playing chauffeur.

graemep 7mo ago
London in the 70s (which GP was talking about) already had long commutes (large suburbs and lots of commuter towns) and most households had cars. Roads are much safer and public transport is good so kids can get around by themselves. One big difference is that more women work: stay at home mums used to strengthen communities - doing voluntary work, organising things. Now that is mostly done by retired people so the pool is smaller and fewer households have someone directly involved. Another way to look at it is that the working hours for a similar household has increased greatly so the household as a whole has less time to contribute to the community. Another factor is that people move around more. Again, very noticeable in London where a lot of people have moved out because of high house prices. People do not near people they grew up with.

billfor 7mo ago

[flagged]

exe34 7mo ago
By this logic, people should still be hanging out in the streets in all those villages where the master race dominates. And yet, we still only observe the bums and the retired hanging out with a day to fill. Any idea how that impacts your hypothesis?
graemep 7mo ago
You are conflating skin colour and culture. A non-white immigrant who speaks fluent English, and is from a country with a common law legal system and British influenced culture can integrate far better than someone from a European country who does not speak good English. There are more people in London whose "main" language is Romanian, Spanish or Polish than any other languages. https://data.london.gov.uk/download/vqlo7/c3df8c46-b070-439c-951b-10cb91ce8ae5/Census%202021%20release%20on%20Ethnicity%2C%20National%20Identity%2C%20Language%20and%20Religion.pdf https://data.london.gov.uk/download/vqlo7/c3df8c46-b070-439c... Only 4% do not speak English well. London has had a large foreign born population and a lot of immigration for a long time and was fine in the 1990s so i doubt things have changed as much as you think in recent years.
ThePowerOfFuet 7mo ago
What fucking racist shit is this?!

m_fayer 7mo ago

I think an undersung and underquantified factor here is how much less time people have. For reasons psychological and socioeconomic, across class lines, it seems we all have a mental calendar and todo list in our heads now, a tyrant that will always point out that aimless chatter is not appropriate, lest we fall even further behind.

rendaw 7mo ago

Were streets the real 3rd places? I always wondered how commoners (?) could afford to go to a pub every day to socialize, or if it was cheap, how the pubs could survive with a bunch of people who were just hanging out day after day.

tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
Wages were much lower. As were property prices. Legislative demands were also simpler.
- navigate8310 7mo ago
  Laws are only simpler in hindsight