5 ms·

Really, "Gets Your Circuits Laid"? It's a shame too many of these product announcements subtly discriminate against women, and frequently minorities. Why not

by mrjbq7 14y ago

Really, "Gets Your Circuits Laid"? It's a shame too many of these product announcements subtly discriminate against women, and frequently minorities. Why not a more descriptive title such as "Upverter Releases Sophisticated Circuit Layout Tool"? Congratulations to the Upverter team, but try to be more sensitive next time.

pavel_lishin 14y ago
Why is "getting laid" discriminatory against women?
- jere 14y ago
  Because only men can get laid obviously.
- mrjbq7 14y ago
  I could say something witty about women being treated as sexual objects more frequently than men, or reference the studies pointing out that sexualized environments encourage sexual harassment and discrimination to take place (something biased against women more than men), talk about how sexual innuendo is commonly a way for men to bond over their shared attraction to women, or any number of complaints pointed out repeatedly over the years by women in this industry. But... I don't think Upverter was trying to discriminate, nor do I think anyone should take real offense at their title. I just think that little jokes like this often recurring does have a negative impact on our ability to attract women to (and have them thrive in) technical roles.
  - gte910h 14y ago
    Then you should post these links, and point out these things. Don't just wave your hands and posit this sort of thing is against women without evidence for that point. Convert people to this cause if it's true, or silence your allusions if it's not.
    - rachelbythebay 14y ago
      Let's say if every time you saw someone talking about a particular product or service, they were wearing something that only 12 year olds wear. Let's further say you are 15 years old, and you're trying to distinguish yourself from the 12 year olds, since "they're just kids" and you are not. You're trying to not be associated with the "kids" schtick. Given that, would you use that product and service if only people who dress like 12 year olds use it? I suspect you might avoid it, assuming you were the sort of person who cared about that sort of perception. Or here, let me try it in terms of variables: A: The people who are always talking about B B: The product, service, or career they're talking about C: The group they appear to be part of D: You. E: People who might look at you (D) and think you are a (C) because of your association with (B), because of the presentations put forth by (A). If you don't make any of these connections, you may not be affected by this. However, it could still affect those who do make those connections.
      - eliasmacpherson 14y ago
        By reading male gender bias into a situation when there isn't any mention of gender, it shows hyper sensitivity to gender bias. That indicates there's widespread problems around gender bias, which I'm sure we agree exist. This indication can also be off putting. (Of course the article is written by a man.) It raises the question, which is worse, false flagging of gender bias where there isn't any, or widespread gender bias? Obviously the latter. But the former does seem weirdly counter productive, if you want to avoid putting people off, then don't put people off by false flagging things that aren't there. In trying to see the other side of the debate: I'm sure a woman has written such a headline before, but I would imagine it's been targeted at female audiences(this could be gender bias on my part though). I might imagine the likelihood of a male writing an inappropriate bla bla "gets you laid" headline at a supposedly neutral audience is higher than a woman doing so(my gender bias again?). I suppose also as a man writing a "gets you laid" headline, you're making assumptions about the high male/female ratio of your target audience. Most men I know, know such talk can make them unpopular with female readers. (although this could just be presumption and not actual fact, maybe female readers wouldn't give a hoot) So those assumptions made by writing such a headline, will be obvious to the reader and off putting. Even if it wasn't obvious whether the writer was male or female, between industry stereotypes and gender bias, most people would assume such a headline about a cloud based circuit cad tool would be written by a man,(again possibly my bias). What's my point? I don't have one, but best to play it on the safe side.
- mrjbq7 14y ago
  If you'd like, here is some information on common complaints by women about this topic: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
amalag 14y ago
I think it's hilarious and absolutely correct english. If you happen to find a sexual euphemism in it, what does that have to do it?
- jrockway 14y ago
  "get laid" is not correct English.
  - paulrademacher 14y ago
    Of course it is. My rhymes and my records they don't get played / because my records and rhymes, they don't get made / 'cause when you rap like me you don't get paid / and when you roll like me you don't get laid.
    - stephen_g 14y ago
      I didn't realise Flight of the Conchords was an authority on proper English! More seriously though, the title is extremely childish and doesn't really help to make me want to trust their service with my company's valuable data...
  - gte910h 14y ago
    Languages are descriptive, not proscriptive. "Get Laid" is an idiom from the 50s. 60 years later we can safely call it part of the language. At this point you're doing the equivalent of bitching that email isn't capitalized anymore. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=get+laid http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=get+laid
    - jrockway 14y ago
      It's correct as a synonym for fucking, but it's not a correct way of saying you etched traces on a circuit board, which is what this article is trying to do.
      - 14y ago
gte910h 14y ago
That's not against women, it's just a bit crass (aka, against people who think sex should stay out of business). Both men and women get laid.
- zio99 14y ago
  It's not crass, nor is it discriminatory. Laying out a circuit is the equivalent of getting it fabricated. Terminology is used at AMD every time a chip is shipped/sent to pre-fab/taped-out/laid/fabbed/traced/etc: Sources: [1] PCB layout: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:srb7R1nTi6MJ:www.instructables.com/id/Lay-out-a-Circuit-Board/+%22lay+out+a+circuit%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:srb7R1n... [2] Page 41: http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html [3] Google Groups Discussion: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.cad.cadence/HV5OTn6YRGI https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.cad... [4] PDF: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/CLASS_573/Asynchr_Febr_2007/t30412.pdf http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/CLASS_573/Asynchr_Febr_200...
  - phunge 14y ago
    If enough people find it crass, it's crass. I find it crass, enough to not click through. Sure, layout is common terminology in EDA. Getting laid is not.
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      It's "laid" vs "layed out". Nobody says, "I laid my circuit today".
  - DanBC 14y ago
    > [2] Page 41: http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html Did you read your references? This one has nothing to do with electronics. The other three all use "laying out a circuit". None of them used "laid". Luckily there are very many search hits for "laid out a circuit" (some about cycling, etc) or "laid out a PCB", so it's common usage. But "Gets your circuits laid" is clear sexual innuendo.
zio99 14y ago
I supposed "newly laid pipes" would offend you as well. Well, let's sign a petition to the Times of Malta to change their offensive wording. </sarc> Source: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121026/local/Council-threatens-action-over-leaking-sewage-in-the-streets.442679 http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121026/local/Cou...
- DanBC 14y ago
  The "problem"[1] isn't with the word 'laid' which has many uses. The problem is with the phrase 'get laid', which has one main use. First impressions count. Upverter is really cool. How many people have missed the opportunity to be upverter users because of this bad pun? Perhaps more importantly, how many customers did upverter not get because of the bad humour? They are free to use whatever language they like to talk about their project. Other people are free to be disappointed at the choice of language; or to be put off by the words used; or to not care about the language.
twerquie 14y ago
Your hyper-sensitivity is far more offensive than the playful euphemism in Upverter's title. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, "getting laid" in no way discriminates against women, as women and men of all dispositions get laid equally.
- mrjbq7 14y ago
  I'm surprised you think it is hyper-sensitivity. The joke is at least sophomoric, if not crass as others have pointed out.
  - twerquie 14y ago
    > The joke is at least sophomoric, if not crass as others have pointed out. Those are virtues in a joke.
epe 14y ago
I'd assumed it was a reference to jwz's "how will this software get my users laid": http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html Maybe I'm giving them too much credit...

by mrjbq7 14y ago

pavel_lishin 14y ago

Why is "getting laid" discriminatory against women?

jere 14y ago
Because only men can get laid obviously.
mrjbq7 14y ago
I could say something witty about women being treated as sexual objects more frequently than men, or reference the studies pointing out that sexualized environments encourage sexual harassment and discrimination to take place (something biased against women more than men), talk about how sexual innuendo is commonly a way for men to bond over their shared attraction to women, or any number of complaints pointed out repeatedly over the years by women in this industry. But... I don't think Upverter was trying to discriminate, nor do I think anyone should take real offense at their title. I just think that little jokes like this often recurring does have a negative impact on our ability to attract women to (and have them thrive in) technical roles.
- gte910h 14y ago
  Then you should post these links, and point out these things. Don't just wave your hands and posit this sort of thing is against women without evidence for that point. Convert people to this cause if it's true, or silence your allusions if it's not.
  - rachelbythebay 14y ago
    Let's say if every time you saw someone talking about a particular product or service, they were wearing something that only 12 year olds wear. Let's further say you are 15 years old, and you're trying to distinguish yourself from the 12 year olds, since "they're just kids" and you are not. You're trying to not be associated with the "kids" schtick. Given that, would you use that product and service if only people who dress like 12 year olds use it? I suspect you might avoid it, assuming you were the sort of person who cared about that sort of perception. Or here, let me try it in terms of variables: A: The people who are always talking about B B: The product, service, or career they're talking about C: The group they appear to be part of D: You. E: People who might look at you (D) and think you are a (C) because of your association with (B), because of the presentations put forth by (A). If you don't make any of these connections, you may not be affected by this. However, it could still affect those who do make those connections.
    - eliasmacpherson 14y ago
      By reading male gender bias into a situation when there isn't any mention of gender, it shows hyper sensitivity to gender bias. That indicates there's widespread problems around gender bias, which I'm sure we agree exist. This indication can also be off putting. (Of course the article is written by a man.) It raises the question, which is worse, false flagging of gender bias where there isn't any, or widespread gender bias? Obviously the latter. But the former does seem weirdly counter productive, if you want to avoid putting people off, then don't put people off by false flagging things that aren't there. In trying to see the other side of the debate: I'm sure a woman has written such a headline before, but I would imagine it's been targeted at female audiences(this could be gender bias on my part though). I might imagine the likelihood of a male writing an inappropriate bla bla "gets you laid" headline at a supposedly neutral audience is higher than a woman doing so(my gender bias again?). I suppose also as a man writing a "gets you laid" headline, you're making assumptions about the high male/female ratio of your target audience. Most men I know, know such talk can make them unpopular with female readers. (although this could just be presumption and not actual fact, maybe female readers wouldn't give a hoot) So those assumptions made by writing such a headline, will be obvious to the reader and off putting. Even if it wasn't obvious whether the writer was male or female, between industry stereotypes and gender bias, most people would assume such a headline about a cloud based circuit cad tool would be written by a man,(again possibly my bias). What's my point? I don't have one, but best to play it on the safe side.
mrjbq7 14y ago
If you'd like, here is some information on common complaints by women about this topic: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_environment

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

amalag 14y ago

I think it's hilarious and absolutely correct english. If you happen to find a sexual euphemism in it, what does that have to do it?

jrockway 14y ago
"get laid" is not correct English.
- paulrademacher 14y ago
  Of course it is. My rhymes and my records they don't get played / because my records and rhymes, they don't get made / 'cause when you rap like me you don't get paid / and when you roll like me you don't get laid.
  - stephen_g 14y ago
    I didn't realise Flight of the Conchords was an authority on proper English! More seriously though, the title is extremely childish and doesn't really help to make me want to trust their service with my company's valuable data...
- gte910h 14y ago
  Languages are descriptive, not proscriptive. "Get Laid" is an idiom from the 50s. 60 years later we can safely call it part of the language. At this point you're doing the equivalent of bitching that email isn't capitalized anymore. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=get+laid http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=get+laid
  - jrockway 14y ago
    It's correct as a synonym for fucking, but it's not a correct way of saying you etched traces on a circuit board, which is what this article is trying to do.
    - 14y ago

gte910h 14y ago

That's not against women, it's just a bit crass (aka, against people who think sex should stay out of business). Both men and women get laid.

zio99 14y ago
It's not crass, nor is it discriminatory. Laying out a circuit is the equivalent of getting it fabricated. Terminology is used at AMD every time a chip is shipped/sent to pre-fab/taped-out/laid/fabbed/traced/etc: Sources: [1] PCB layout: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:srb7R1nTi6MJ:www.instructables.com/id/Lay-out-a-Circuit-Board/+%22lay+out+a+circuit%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:srb7R1n... [2] Page 41: http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html [3] Google Groups Discussion: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.cad.cadence/HV5OTn6YRGI https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.cad... [4] PDF: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/CLASS_573/Asynchr_Febr_2007/t30412.pdf http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/CLASS_573/Asynchr_Febr_200...
- phunge 14y ago
  If enough people find it crass, it's crass. I find it crass, enough to not click through. Sure, layout is common terminology in EDA. Getting laid is not.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    It's "laid" vs "layed out". Nobody says, "I laid my circuit today".
- DanBC 14y ago
  > [2] Page 41: http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/dsmith/dsmith.html Did you read your references? This one has nothing to do with electronics. The other three all use "laying out a circuit". None of them used "laid". Luckily there are very many search hits for "laid out a circuit" (some about cycling, etc) or "laid out a PCB", so it's common usage. But "Gets your circuits laid" is clear sexual innuendo.

zio99 14y ago

I supposed "newly laid pipes" would offend you as well. Well, let's sign a petition to the Times of Malta to change their offensive wording. </sarc> Source: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121026/local/Council-threatens-action-over-leaking-sewage-in-the-streets.442679 http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121026/local/Cou...

DanBC 14y ago
The "problem"[1] isn't with the word 'laid' which has many uses. The problem is with the phrase 'get laid', which has one main use. First impressions count. Upverter is really cool. How many people have missed the opportunity to be upverter users because of this bad pun? Perhaps more importantly, how many customers did upverter not get because of the bad humour? They are free to use whatever language they like to talk about their project. Other people are free to be disappointed at the choice of language; or to be put off by the words used; or to not care about the language.

twerquie 14y ago

Your hyper-sensitivity is far more offensive than the playful euphemism in Upverter's title. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, "getting laid" in no way discriminates against women, as women and men of all dispositions get laid equally.

mrjbq7 14y ago
I'm surprised you think it is hyper-sensitivity. The joke is at least sophomoric, if not crass as others have pointed out.
- twerquie 14y ago
  > The joke is at least sophomoric, if not crass as others have pointed out. Those are virtues in a joke.

epe 14y ago

I'd assumed it was a reference to jwz's "how will this software get my users laid": http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html Maybe I'm giving them too much credit...