4 ms·

I bought my first x86 PC in 1994 to install Linux on. I wanted a Sun workstation but couldn't afford it. I know people run an operating system to run programs

I bought my first x86 PC in 1994 to install Linux on. I wanted a Sun workstation but couldn't afford it. I know people run an operating system to run programs on so it isn't easy to switch but so many windows users make it sound like they have Stockholm Syndrome. My advice as a Linux user of 32 years for normal people is to buy a Mac.

Dumblydorr 7mo ago
Mac’s are way more expensive than most people need. If anyone asked me today, I’d say buy a cheap laptop and I’ll install Linux on it for you. Ask ChatGPT on your phone if ever any bugs come up. Problem solved, hundreds of dollars saved over the Mac.
- rpgbr 7mo ago
  Other brands' USD 599 laptops are atrocious. Neo is guaranteed to be a reliable, pleasure, and long-term investment. >Ask ChatGPT on your phone if ever any bugs come up. This is a dealbreaker compared to never (or even rarely) having any “bugs”.
- drooopy 7mo ago
  Most PC laptops at Neo's price point (or cheaper) are essentially manufactured e-waste.
bluescrn 7mo ago
The Macbook Neo seems likely to be a a huge seller. It's got the price of entry down to where it's now the obvious recommendation for less-technical friends/family wanting an affordable-but-nice laptop for light home/office/student use. I suspect it's going to hurt iPad sales though, as a real Mac running MacOS is vastly more capable than any iPad.
- torginus 7mo ago
  I don't think Ipads are selling well. I have an old style basic one (from 2019 I think?), and the only thing I use it for is to read articles and occasionally look at emails, for which it's perfectly adequate.
  - bluescrn 7mo ago
    Tablets can do very little that you can't do on a phone. Phones got larger and more capable, tablets now seem somewhat redundant. But a laptop with a keyboard and 'real OS' can still do many things that aren't practical on a tablet or phone.
- lizknope 7mo ago
  > The Macbook Neo seems likely to be a a huge seller. I It already is. > MacBook Neo Just Broke an Apple Sales Record, Shipping Delays Continue > The laptop is a record-breaking release for sales to first-time Mac owners, according to Tim Cook. https://www.pcmag.com/news/macbook-neo-just-broke-an-apple-sales-record-shipping-delays-continue https://www.pcmag.com/news/macbook-neo-just-broke-an-apple-s...
- zbentley 7mo ago
  > I suspect it's going to hurt iPad sales though, as a real Mac running MacOS is vastly more capable than any iPad. Maybe, but I somewhat doubt it, for a few reasons: - Kids like iPads for gaming/video watching, and the overhead of computer interfaces for them might discourage laptopping (understandable for littler kids; regrettable loss of tech familiarity for older ones, but true regardless). - Parents/rough users like iPads 'cuz there aren't moving parts or gaps to get hammered and damaged, though the screen is a risk. - Cellular iPads/huge phone-alikes are pretty popular, and the vast majority of users are unfamiliar with the idea of hooking a computer-shaped device up to cellular internet. - iPads are easier to MDM-manage/lock down. You can do that on MacOS too, of course, but a lot of folks find it easier to regulate kid/employee/etc. use of an iPad because the management system is familiar and simpler. - iPads feel like a big phone. That's a pretty intuitive switch for a lot of folks who either don't have keyboarded computers at all, or associate them with non-fun (work/school) computing. Silly distinction to draw, to be sure, but very significant in the minds of many users. The single-brick/touch aspect of iPads is desirable enough that a fold-out laptop isn't going to overlap with a lot of those users.
devilbunny 7mo ago
> for normal people is to buy a Mac Thus, the MacBook Neo. For the average user who only occasionally needs a general-purpose computer, it's powerful enough. As the geek in my friends-and-family circle, it's what I will be recommending to most of them if they ask. Most of them only use phones or tablets anyway.
hedora 7mo ago
If they have a budget of ~ $1000, then I'd recommend an AMD Linux laptop. For folks here, I'd recommend similar, but pave it + put Devuan or similar on it. For low end laptops, if you can tolerate Apple's terrible window manager, rapidly declining stability, and creeping ads (they leaked expansion plans that are coming soon), then the Neo probably wins. Typed on a macbook pro.
- fullstop 7mo ago
  > but pave it + put Devuan or similar on it. The distribution which left the root account without a password if you selected "Use sudo as default and disable root account"?
kakacik 7mo ago
Is there a full equivalent of Total Commander there? I don't mean just something with 2 panes, I mean full equivalent. Those I have seen were clunky, slow and lacked features thus completely breaking the flow. When I see folks doing something more complex in File explorer or similar stuff I rather walk away, make a tea/coffee, have a chat or two, come back to watch them hopefully progress a bit, when it would take few quick operations in TC. Its like doing java development in Notepad vs Idea, both work but man I always thought engineers craved efficiency... That program is so powerful when used in skilled hands, it saves me tons of time every day, easily 30-60 mins compared to other colleagues doing similar tasks. Editing files directly in archives (or archives in archives), quick file comparison, tabbed panes, dir sync, ftp client, etc.... and tons of customizations of behavior and visuals, plugins ecosystem, and its freakin' fast and stable. Another one could be Notepad++, ie mass edit of lines as cells in spreadsheet is a powerful feature.
- pamcake 7mo ago
  For Linux you have https://midnight-commander.org/ https://midnight-commander.org/ https://krusader.org/ https://krusader.org/ http://www.boomerangsworld.de/cms/worker/index.html http://www.boomerangsworld.de/cms/worker/index.html
  - kakacik 7mo ago
    First 2, nope, tried them and they are too basic and slow. There is huge productivity gap between TC and those 2.
conz 7mo ago
You state: "My advice as a Linux user of 32 years for normal people is to buy a Mac." And as a Linux user since the the MCC Interim distro[0] was made available through the floppy-distribution network in 1992, my advice is for most normal users to begin the process of migrating to Linux. Why? Because even if the Mac has some current advantages over Linux for some normal users today, in the long run, Apple cannot ever be trusted any more than Microsoft can. If you believe that they can be, you're delusional. Whatever enshitifaction process Windows has undergone, whatever further reductions in user rights and freedoms Microsoft has introduced since it became platform hegemon, Apple will do the same. This is almost a law of nature. Here's an example of this: https://www.wired.com/story/bytedance-apps-are-no-longer-available-in-us-app-stores/ https://www.wired.com/story/bytedance-apps-are-no-longer-ava... No, it is time for everyone to understand that in the long run, if we want a free and open society, the only way that that can be achieved is through free and open software. And as software comes to dominate the operation of society, then this becomes critical. So, the sooner most every normal user bites the bullet and begins the migration to Linux, the less painless it will be for them in the long run, and the safer for humanity. Cheers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCC_Interim_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCC_Interim_Linux [EDIT: Typo.]

Dumblydorr 7mo ago

Mac’s are way more expensive than most people need. If anyone asked me today, I’d say buy a cheap laptop and I’ll install Linux on it for you. Ask ChatGPT on your phone if ever any bugs come up. Problem solved, hundreds of dollars saved over the Mac.

rpgbr 7mo ago
Other brands' USD 599 laptops are atrocious. Neo is guaranteed to be a reliable, pleasure, and long-term investment. >Ask ChatGPT on your phone if ever any bugs come up. This is a dealbreaker compared to never (or even rarely) having any “bugs”.
drooopy 7mo ago
Most PC laptops at Neo's price point (or cheaper) are essentially manufactured e-waste.

bluescrn 7mo ago

The Macbook Neo seems likely to be a a huge seller. It's got the price of entry down to where it's now the obvious recommendation for less-technical friends/family wanting an affordable-but-nice laptop for light home/office/student use. I suspect it's going to hurt iPad sales though, as a real Mac running MacOS is vastly more capable than any iPad.

torginus 7mo ago
I don't think Ipads are selling well. I have an old style basic one (from 2019 I think?), and the only thing I use it for is to read articles and occasionally look at emails, for which it's perfectly adequate.
- bluescrn 7mo ago
  Tablets can do very little that you can't do on a phone. Phones got larger and more capable, tablets now seem somewhat redundant. But a laptop with a keyboard and 'real OS' can still do many things that aren't practical on a tablet or phone.
lizknope 7mo ago
> The Macbook Neo seems likely to be a a huge seller. I It already is. > MacBook Neo Just Broke an Apple Sales Record, Shipping Delays Continue > The laptop is a record-breaking release for sales to first-time Mac owners, according to Tim Cook. https://www.pcmag.com/news/macbook-neo-just-broke-an-apple-sales-record-shipping-delays-continue https://www.pcmag.com/news/macbook-neo-just-broke-an-apple-s...
zbentley 7mo ago
> I suspect it's going to hurt iPad sales though, as a real Mac running MacOS is vastly more capable than any iPad. Maybe, but I somewhat doubt it, for a few reasons: - Kids like iPads for gaming/video watching, and the overhead of computer interfaces for them might discourage laptopping (understandable for littler kids; regrettable loss of tech familiarity for older ones, but true regardless). - Parents/rough users like iPads 'cuz there aren't moving parts or gaps to get hammered and damaged, though the screen is a risk. - Cellular iPads/huge phone-alikes are pretty popular, and the vast majority of users are unfamiliar with the idea of hooking a computer-shaped device up to cellular internet. - iPads are easier to MDM-manage/lock down. You can do that on MacOS too, of course, but a lot of folks find it easier to regulate kid/employee/etc. use of an iPad because the management system is familiar and simpler. - iPads feel like a big phone. That's a pretty intuitive switch for a lot of folks who either don't have keyboarded computers at all, or associate them with non-fun (work/school) computing. Silly distinction to draw, to be sure, but very significant in the minds of many users. The single-brick/touch aspect of iPads is desirable enough that a fold-out laptop isn't going to overlap with a lot of those users.

devilbunny 7mo ago

> for normal people is to buy a Mac Thus, the MacBook Neo. For the average user who only occasionally needs a general-purpose computer, it's powerful enough. As the geek in my friends-and-family circle, it's what I will be recommending to most of them if they ask. Most of them only use phones or tablets anyway.

hedora 7mo ago

If they have a budget of ~ $1000, then I'd recommend an AMD Linux laptop. For folks here, I'd recommend similar, but pave it + put Devuan or similar on it. For low end laptops, if you can tolerate Apple's terrible window manager, rapidly declining stability, and creeping ads (they leaked expansion plans that are coming soon), then the Neo probably wins. Typed on a macbook pro.

fullstop 7mo ago
> but pave it + put Devuan or similar on it. The distribution which left the root account without a password if you selected "Use sudo as default and disable root account"?

kakacik 7mo ago

Is there a full equivalent of Total Commander there? I don't mean just something with 2 panes, I mean full equivalent. Those I have seen were clunky, slow and lacked features thus completely breaking the flow. When I see folks doing something more complex in File explorer or similar stuff I rather walk away, make a tea/coffee, have a chat or two, come back to watch them hopefully progress a bit, when it would take few quick operations in TC. Its like doing java development in Notepad vs Idea, both work but man I always thought engineers craved efficiency... That program is so powerful when used in skilled hands, it saves me tons of time every day, easily 30-60 mins compared to other colleagues doing similar tasks. Editing files directly in archives (or archives in archives), quick file comparison, tabbed panes, dir sync, ftp client, etc.... and tons of customizations of behavior and visuals, plugins ecosystem, and its freakin' fast and stable. Another one could be Notepad++, ie mass edit of lines as cells in spreadsheet is a powerful feature.

pamcake 7mo ago
For Linux you have https://midnight-commander.org/ https://midnight-commander.org/ https://krusader.org/ https://krusader.org/ http://www.boomerangsworld.de/cms/worker/index.html http://www.boomerangsworld.de/cms/worker/index.html
- kakacik 7mo ago
  First 2, nope, tried them and they are too basic and slow. There is huge productivity gap between TC and those 2.

conz 7mo ago

You state: "My advice as a Linux user of 32 years for normal people is to buy a Mac." And as a Linux user since the the MCC Interim distro[0] was made available through the floppy-distribution network in 1992, my advice is for most normal users to begin the process of migrating to Linux. Why? Because even if the Mac has some current advantages over Linux for some normal users today, in the long run, Apple cannot ever be trusted any more than Microsoft can. If you believe that they can be, you're delusional. Whatever enshitifaction process Windows has undergone, whatever further reductions in user rights and freedoms Microsoft has introduced since it became platform hegemon, Apple will do the same. This is almost a law of nature. Here's an example of this: https://www.wired.com/story/bytedance-apps-are-no-longer-available-in-us-app-stores/ https://www.wired.com/story/bytedance-apps-are-no-longer-ava... No, it is time for everyone to understand that in the long run, if we want a free and open society, the only way that that can be achieved is through free and open software. And as software comes to dominate the operation of society, then this becomes critical. So, the sooner most every normal user bites the bullet and begins the migration to Linux, the less painless it will be for them in the long run, and the safer for humanity. Cheers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCC_Interim_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCC_Interim_Linux [EDIT: Typo.]