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I was not the best civics student.. What is the significance of it being secret? Being able to verify your vote seems like a pretty simple, good thing ( I would

I was not the best civics student.. What is the significance of it being secret? Being able to verify your vote seems like a pretty simple, good thing ( I would think ).

tobias3 14y ago
Someone can give you money to vote for a specific candidate and verify that you voted correctly via the confirmation code.
ry0ohki 14y ago
So say if some party were to gain power and start harassing people that voted for the other party...
- blindhippo 14y ago
  If this is the reason, there is a bigger problem in America then simple voter fraud...
  - mindrag 14y ago
    There are all sorts of laws that protect us from various government abuses, such as requiring search warrants, trial by jury, freedom of speech, etc. Voter secrecy is a prudent safeguard along those same lines.
  - briandear 14y ago
    Ever dealt with a union election? That's exactly the problem with non secret ballots. You vote against unionization and thugs show up at your house. Union activists are among the most violent people around.
    - thomasz 14y ago
      Gosh. Ever dealt with a union election? That's exactly the problem with non secret ballots. You vote for unionization and libertarians show up at your house. Libertarians are among the most violent people around.
      - bdunbar 14y ago
        Perhaps you know libertarians that I don't. The ones I know are well armed, but about as non-violent as you can be and not be a Quaker.
        thomasz 14y ago
        Just to make it clear: This was sarcasm. I never have dealt with armed libertarians beating somebody up because he supported unionization. The point is: Neither has he encountered union thugs beating somebody up because he was against unionization. It's a ridiculous myth.
        bdunbar 14y ago
        I missed the sarcasm at first - my bad! But I don't know about 'union thug' being a myth: lots of actual violence back in the dark days of the last century. Carnegie brought in an army to bust up the union and it wasn't because they were meek lambs.
        finnw 14y ago
        > This was sarcasm No, it was irony.
        thomasz 14y ago
        mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
    - trhtrsh 14y ago
      You could make your point without rabid partisanism. There is violence on all sides of unionization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence
- gordonguthrie 14y ago
  In Spain in 1936 the Francoists shot a proportion of people on the voter lists of the Government Parties.
LandoCalrissian 14y ago
The short answer is you can buy votes then. If you can prove to me who you voted for, I'll give you $5 or whatever.
- Firehed 14y ago
  Which is trivially easy with the availability of camera-phones (just include your ID in the shot). I know it's not foolproof as you could request a new ballot, but I'm guessing those buying votes aren't the smartest folk. Plus you'd be crazy to not accept the money upfront, as there's no way they're actually going to pay out after the fact and it's not like you can take someone to court for not upholding their end of an illegal bargain.
- sadawi 14y ago
  What you're buying isn't a vote, but a receipt. What if we could increase the supply of valid receipts enough to make them effectively worthless? For example, voting machines could drop duplicate receipts into a bucket that voters are free to rummage around in.
  - shinratdr 14y ago
    Or just not have receipts and avoid the issue altogether.
    - sadawi 14y ago
      Sure, but there's a benefit to receipts: you can verify that your vote was counted correctly.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - shinratdr 14y ago
        Well, you can verify that the receipt says your vote was counted correctly. That assumes you both trust the receipt system and believe that whatever tampering was done to cause your Obama vote to become a Romney vote couldn't have possibly also resulted in the receipt providing incorrect information as well.
cabalamat 14y ago
> What is the significance of it being secret? So that people can't bribe or blackmail you into voting a particular way.
- brown9-2 14y ago
  Or rather, it makes the purchase of votes much less attractive.

I was not the best civics student.. What is the significance of it being secret? Being able to verify your vote seems like a pretty simple, good thing ( I would think ).

tobias3 14y ago

Someone can give you money to vote for a specific candidate and verify that you voted correctly via the confirmation code.

ry0ohki 14y ago

So say if some party were to gain power and start harassing people that voted for the other party...

blindhippo 14y ago
If this is the reason, there is a bigger problem in America then simple voter fraud...
- mindrag 14y ago
  There are all sorts of laws that protect us from various government abuses, such as requiring search warrants, trial by jury, freedom of speech, etc. Voter secrecy is a prudent safeguard along those same lines.
- briandear 14y ago
  Ever dealt with a union election? That's exactly the problem with non secret ballots. You vote against unionization and thugs show up at your house. Union activists are among the most violent people around.
  - thomasz 14y ago
    Gosh. Ever dealt with a union election? That's exactly the problem with non secret ballots. You vote for unionization and libertarians show up at your house. Libertarians are among the most violent people around.
    - bdunbar 14y ago
      Perhaps you know libertarians that I don't. The ones I know are well armed, but about as non-violent as you can be and not be a Quaker.
      - thomasz 14y ago
        Just to make it clear: This was sarcasm. I never have dealt with armed libertarians beating somebody up because he supported unionization. The point is: Neither has he encountered union thugs beating somebody up because he was against unionization. It's a ridiculous myth.
        bdunbar 14y ago
        I missed the sarcasm at first - my bad! But I don't know about 'union thug' being a myth: lots of actual violence back in the dark days of the last century. Carnegie brought in an army to bust up the union and it wasn't because they were meek lambs.
        finnw 14y ago
        > This was sarcasm No, it was irony.
        thomasz 14y ago
        mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
  - trhtrsh 14y ago
    You could make your point without rabid partisanism. There is violence on all sides of unionization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence
gordonguthrie 14y ago
In Spain in 1936 the Francoists shot a proportion of people on the voter lists of the Government Parties.

LandoCalrissian 14y ago

The short answer is you can buy votes then. If you can prove to me who you voted for, I'll give you $5 or whatever.

Firehed 14y ago
Which is trivially easy with the availability of camera-phones (just include your ID in the shot). I know it's not foolproof as you could request a new ballot, but I'm guessing those buying votes aren't the smartest folk. Plus you'd be crazy to not accept the money upfront, as there's no way they're actually going to pay out after the fact and it's not like you can take someone to court for not upholding their end of an illegal bargain.
sadawi 14y ago
What you're buying isn't a vote, but a receipt. What if we could increase the supply of valid receipts enough to make them effectively worthless? For example, voting machines could drop duplicate receipts into a bucket that voters are free to rummage around in.
- shinratdr 14y ago
  Or just not have receipts and avoid the issue altogether.
  - sadawi 14y ago
    Sure, but there's a benefit to receipts: you can verify that your vote was counted correctly.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - shinratdr 14y ago
      Well, you can verify that the receipt says your vote was counted correctly. That assumes you both trust the receipt system and believe that whatever tampering was done to cause your Obama vote to become a Romney vote couldn't have possibly also resulted in the receipt providing incorrect information as well.

cabalamat 14y ago

> What is the significance of it being secret? So that people can't bribe or blackmail you into voting a particular way.

brown9-2 14y ago
Or rather, it makes the purchase of votes much less attractive.