6 ms·

If OP comes from a democracy, I highly doubt they do things like: - Voter ID to discourage minorities, students, elderly [1] - "True the Vote", invoking a pro

If OP comes from a democracy, I highly doubt they do things like: - Voter ID to discourage minorities, students, elderly [1] - "True the Vote", invoking a problem that doesn't exist [2] - Another article on "True the Vote" [3] - Blocking voting on the weekend before election [4] - You don't see lines like this in other developed countries. It's not that they're not reported on because "no one cares", they're not reported on because there aren't any lines. [5] - Again, you don't see stuff like this on election day outside of the US: [6] - Thankfully, there are honorable republicans who also call this out, like Conor Friedersdorf: [7] - And this, it's just... Baffling to people in the rest of the world. [8] Again, this is unheard of where I live, not because people don't care but because we're not (completely) bamboozled! [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8 [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/10/the-ballot-cops/309085/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/10/the-ball... [3] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/us/politics/groups-like-true-the-vote-are-looking-very-closely-for-voter-fraud.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/us/politics/groups-like-tr... [4] http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/sep/21/voting-wrongs/ http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/sep/21/voting-wron... [5] http://news.yahoo.com/voting-already-mess-florida-041641182.html http://news.yahoo.com/voting-already-mess-florida-041641182.... [6] http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/no-one-in-america-should-have-to-wait-7-hours-to-vote/264506/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/no-one-i... [7] http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/shame-on-the-republicans-who-curtailed-early-voting/264517/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/11/shame-on... [8] http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/doral-florida-early-voting-confusion-14449029?src=rss http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/doral-florida-early-vo...

king_jester 14y ago
So very much this. Voting systems and elections in the US are heavily gamed, mostly legally but always unethically. The reason why the US does not have smooth voting is because the incentive for elected officials isn't in getting people voting, but enabling voting for those with interests aligned with their own. When it comes to actual voters, some of them see nothing wrong with policies that are highly discriminatory, and that includes how elections and voting is conducted.
- ajross 14y ago
  The "gamed" bit is the essence of the problem. The USA has a winner-take-all two party system and not a parliamentary setup. This simultaneously makes the victory margins razor thin (because the two parties naturally align at about 50% support) and the stakes of the outcome very high. Where in most of Europe people can just go vote their favorite party and let the legislators figure out the details later, everything in the US is determined on one day. So the incentives to game the system are immense, which is exactly why you see this kind of "Voter ID" laws to target unwanted demographics, and elaborate GoTV efforts with buses shuttling people around town, etc... But even in the US, it doesn't have to be that way. Several states (mine among them) have moved to a 100% mail-in ballot system and eliminated in-person polling places.
tomp 14y ago
> Voter ID to discourage minorities, students, elderly Why would that discourage anyone? In slovenia, you are required by law to carry an ID when you turn 18/get voting rights. So there's really no excuse for anyone to not have an id (or driver's licence).
- yesbabyyes 14y ago
  An example: In Texas, a student ID is not good enough to count as a voter ID -- but an NRA member card is. I kid you not. The Simpsons could not have come up with something more absurd. Minorities in the US are way less likely to carry photo ID. I could go on and on. In short, the situation is different than in Slovenia.
  - endersshadow 14y ago
    Also, there's a loaded history, too. Blacks were disenfranchised post-Civil War through a whole host of measures, of which IDs was just one of them. Requiring IDs or literacy for voters brings back thoughts of Jim Crow laws. These issues are steeped in history that Slovenia just doesn't have.
- morsch 14y ago
  It's the same here. Well, similar, you're not legally required to carry it with you; most people do so anyway for convenience. But some countries don't have a national id, including but not limited to the US. The UK briefly introduced and then scrapped a national ID system, bowing to public pressure. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 -- a key phrase being "Many of the concerns focused on the databases underlying the identity cards rather than the cards themselves." It's not something you can easily compare across borders and it's extremely loaded with all sorts of issues in the US, as far as I understand.
- EvilTerran 14y ago
  In a lot of countries, ID is not mandatory, and government-endorsed photo IDs are expensive and time-consuming to acquire. As such, people with a high income will be more likely to have them. That applies doubly so for a passport or driving license -- people with more money are more likely to have a car or travel overseas, so more likely to have those types of ID.
jarek 14y ago
> You don't see lines like this in other developed countries. It's not that they're not reported on because "no one cares", they're not reported on because there aren't any lines. Well, that's not strictly true. I recall waiting about half an hour on the election day for one of the elections I voted in in Ontario. Several hours' wait during early voting seems a little bush league though.

king_jester 14y ago

So very much this. Voting systems and elections in the US are heavily gamed, mostly legally but always unethically. The reason why the US does not have smooth voting is because the incentive for elected officials isn't in getting people voting, but enabling voting for those with interests aligned with their own. When it comes to actual voters, some of them see nothing wrong with policies that are highly discriminatory, and that includes how elections and voting is conducted.

ajross 14y ago
The "gamed" bit is the essence of the problem. The USA has a winner-take-all two party system and not a parliamentary setup. This simultaneously makes the victory margins razor thin (because the two parties naturally align at about 50% support) and the stakes of the outcome very high. Where in most of Europe people can just go vote their favorite party and let the legislators figure out the details later, everything in the US is determined on one day. So the incentives to game the system are immense, which is exactly why you see this kind of "Voter ID" laws to target unwanted demographics, and elaborate GoTV efforts with buses shuttling people around town, etc... But even in the US, it doesn't have to be that way. Several states (mine among them) have moved to a 100% mail-in ballot system and eliminated in-person polling places.

tomp 14y ago

> Voter ID to discourage minorities, students, elderly Why would that discourage anyone? In slovenia, you are required by law to carry an ID when you turn 18/get voting rights. So there's really no excuse for anyone to not have an id (or driver's licence).

yesbabyyes 14y ago
An example: In Texas, a student ID is not good enough to count as a voter ID -- but an NRA member card is. I kid you not. The Simpsons could not have come up with something more absurd. Minorities in the US are way less likely to carry photo ID. I could go on and on. In short, the situation is different than in Slovenia.
- endersshadow 14y ago
  Also, there's a loaded history, too. Blacks were disenfranchised post-Civil War through a whole host of measures, of which IDs was just one of them. Requiring IDs or literacy for voters brings back thoughts of Jim Crow laws. These issues are steeped in history that Slovenia just doesn't have.
morsch 14y ago
It's the same here. Well, similar, you're not legally required to carry it with you; most people do so anyway for convenience. But some countries don't have a national id, including but not limited to the US. The UK briefly introduced and then scrapped a national ID system, bowing to public pressure. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 -- a key phrase being "Many of the concerns focused on the databases underlying the identity cards rather than the cards themselves." It's not something you can easily compare across borders and it's extremely loaded with all sorts of issues in the US, as far as I understand.
EvilTerran 14y ago
In a lot of countries, ID is not mandatory, and government-endorsed photo IDs are expensive and time-consuming to acquire. As such, people with a high income will be more likely to have them. That applies doubly so for a passport or driving license -- people with more money are more likely to have a car or travel overseas, so more likely to have those types of ID.

jarek 14y ago

> You don't see lines like this in other developed countries. It's not that they're not reported on because "no one cares", they're not reported on because there aren't any lines. Well, that's not strictly true. I recall waiting about half an hour on the election day for one of the elections I voted in in Ontario. Several hours' wait during early voting seems a little bush league though.