3 ms·

Seriously, that was my thought too. Even if we were to stretch credibility and suggest that general consumers don't care about this sort of thing, they just re

by kelnos 7mo ago

Seriously, that was my thought too. Even if we were to stretch credibility and suggest that general consumers don't care about this sort of thing, they just released this for Windows Server in the past year? Windows really is a toy of an OS. It continues to blow my mind that people want to use it as a server OS.

pjmlp 7mo ago
Because it offers VMS niceties that UNIX clones still doesn't do, and stuff like AD, SMB, without manually going through configuration files stored somewhere, that differ across UNIX flavours. Although I do conceed UNIX has won the server room and Windows Servers are mostly about AD, SMB, IIS, Sharepoint, Dynamics, SQL Server. Naturally some of those can be outsourced into Azure services that Microsoft will gladly provide.
- ch_123 7mo ago
  Which VMS niceties does it offer?
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Proper file locking, asynchronous operations across everything, ACL based security, proper ABI. Not being an OS from C to C as the main programming model. And then on top, multiple levels of sandboxing, including virtualization of drivers and kernel modules. Ah and RDP is much nicer than X Windows or VNC.
    - jmalicki 7mo ago
      Other than possibly proper ABI, and yes a tiny handful of file operations that could theoretically block not available through io_uring, like ioctl and splice, Linux has the rest.
      - pjmlp 7mo ago
        In security? Not really, unless you are doing immutable deployments with rootless containers, no shell access, which at the end of the day isn't UNIX any longer. And which Linux exactly? Plus unless you're doing C or C++, most likely aren't using those APIs. Anyway, the differences of bare metal servers don't matter in the days of cloud where the actual nature of the kernel running alongside a type 1 hypervisor hardly matters to userspace.
- minetest2048 7mo ago
  And to run windows only apps like some embedded toolchains. Although that gives a motivation for us to move on to gcc because windows is annoying to be used on CI/CD and gcc is good enough compared to that other toolchain
justsomehnguy 7mo ago
Your fanboi attitude is very welcomed on /. And billions spent and earned clearly shows where the moniker 'toy' doesn't apply. BTW year of Linux Desktop when?

by kelnos 7mo ago

pjmlp 7mo ago

Because it offers VMS niceties that UNIX clones still doesn't do, and stuff like AD, SMB, without manually going through configuration files stored somewhere, that differ across UNIX flavours. Although I do conceed UNIX has won the server room and Windows Servers are mostly about AD, SMB, IIS, Sharepoint, Dynamics, SQL Server. Naturally some of those can be outsourced into Azure services that Microsoft will gladly provide.

ch_123 7mo ago
Which VMS niceties does it offer?
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Proper file locking, asynchronous operations across everything, ACL based security, proper ABI. Not being an OS from C to C as the main programming model. And then on top, multiple levels of sandboxing, including virtualization of drivers and kernel modules. Ah and RDP is much nicer than X Windows or VNC.
  - jmalicki 7mo ago
    Other than possibly proper ABI, and yes a tiny handful of file operations that could theoretically block not available through io_uring, like ioctl and splice, Linux has the rest.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      In security? Not really, unless you are doing immutable deployments with rootless containers, no shell access, which at the end of the day isn't UNIX any longer. And which Linux exactly? Plus unless you're doing C or C++, most likely aren't using those APIs. Anyway, the differences of bare metal servers don't matter in the days of cloud where the actual nature of the kernel running alongside a type 1 hypervisor hardly matters to userspace.
minetest2048 7mo ago
And to run windows only apps like some embedded toolchains. Although that gives a motivation for us to move on to gcc because windows is annoying to be used on CI/CD and gcc is good enough compared to that other toolchain

justsomehnguy 7mo ago

Your fanboi attitude is very welcomed on /. And billions spent and earned clearly shows where the moniker 'toy' doesn't apply. BTW year of Linux Desktop when?