4 ms·

What I've read[1][2] in regard to this incident is that it is most likely a calibration issue: i.e. the touch screen is improperly calibrated and as a result is

by llambda 14y ago

What I've read[1][2] in regard to this incident is that it is most likely a calibration issue: i.e. the touch screen is improperly calibrated and as a result is not selecting the proper region of the screen. Now this is concerning because it likely means other machines could be or are miscalibrated. However the important takeaway here is that this is not some malicious attempt to rig the vote. If that were the case the likely method would be completely invisible from the UI; why would an attacker bother to actually show a user they were being manipulated? Of course, they wouldn't. [1] Joseph Hall comments here, also provides a link to further commentary by him: http://gawker.com/5958114/an-expert-weighs-in-on-that-viral-reddit-voter-fraud-video http://gawker.com/5958114/an-expert-weighs-in-on-that-viral-... [2] http://www.theawl.com/2012/11/the-truth-about-voting-machines http://www.theawl.com/2012/11/the-truth-about-voting-machine...

ljoshua 14y ago
Yes, very likely a calibration issue. There was a similar instance occurring here in Colorado [1], but in the opposite direction (a vote for Romney went in as Obama). The machines definitely need to get better, but it is probably not fraud or a hack of any sort. [1] http://www.chieftain.com/politics/pueblo-county-voting-machines-being-tested-state-audit-failing-to/article_60337fae-2783-11e2-9e19-001a4bcf887a.html http://www.chieftain.com/politics/pueblo-county-voting-machi...
Anjin 14y ago
Unfortunately no, if you read what he wrote in the comments of that submission: Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.
- hammock 14y ago
  It's too bad that the video doesn't provide any evidence supporting that story.
- ynniv 14y ago
  The video would be truly compelling if he had repeatedly tapped from Romney to Stein. As it is, the video appears to show miscalibration, and only his testimony suggests fraud. If the video showed what he claimed, it would be lawsuit material.
- naveensundar 14y ago
  The obvious question to ask: Why is that part not shown in the video? Edit: Just watched the video again. The video suspiciously freezes from 11s to 18s. Probably, something inconvenient being edited out amateurishly?
- scott_s 14y ago
  That still doesn't establish malice.
- stevenwei 14y ago
  That doesn't actually mean anything. Resistive and infrared touchscreens (especially cheaper ones) can have all sorts of hilarious calibration errors where part of the screen area works perfectly fine, but other parts of the screen are off completely. I used to work on kiosk software for restaurants. At the start of every day we had to go through all of the touchscreens in the restaurant and calibrate them. Sometimes they would lose their calibration halfway through the day and need to be recalibrated multiple times.
TwistedWeasel 14y ago
The consumer electronics industry has shipped hundreds of millions of touch screens in the last few years and i've not seen a single article complaining that they opened up their new tablet/phone to find it mis-calibrated and that their touches were off my such a huge margin. Why are voting machines apparently subject to calibration problems that other touch screen devices are not?
- ryanhuff 14y ago
  Miscalibrated devices shipped to consumers get returned, resulting in extra costs to the retailer or manufacturer. Miscalibrated voting machines don't.
- danielweber 14y ago
  1. Because they probably have to standardize on an older model and can't push out newer models at will. 2. Because these machines are open to the general public who are hitting the screens with their meaty fingers all day.
- eli 14y ago
  Most likely it's the difference between capacitive versus resistive screens. If you purchased your phone based on the lowest bidding vendor, I'd bet there be a lot more problems with it too.
- avolcano 14y ago
  Not all touch screens are created equal. I remember the old Nintendo DS touch screen, which was resistive, required user calibration where you would press on the corners of the screen. If you missed the corners (which, with the relatively thick stylus and the relatively thick bezel on the original DS, wasn't uncommon), the accuracy of your touch positions would be very notably off, to the point that using touch-screen keyboards in some games would be difficult. Obviously I don't know for sure if this was the exact case with this voting machine, but the point being, some touch screens do require calibration and there is a chance for error. Or, of course, it could simply have been a factory mistake. Either way, I doubt there's any malice behind this error.
- jerf 14y ago
waqf 14y ago
> why would an attacker bother to actually show a user they were being manipulated? Because the person who wishes to tamper with the outcome of the election only has access to (or, very likely, skillz to modify) the calibration template (which has to be reconfigured each election, hence is modified by more people), not to the entire source code and tool chain of the voting machine. Most attacks are not gigantic conspiracies with unlimited resources.

by llambda 14y ago

ljoshua 14y ago

Yes, very likely a calibration issue. There was a similar instance occurring here in Colorado [1], but in the opposite direction (a vote for Romney went in as Obama). The machines definitely need to get better, but it is probably not fraud or a hack of any sort. [1] http://www.chieftain.com/politics/pueblo-county-voting-machines-being-tested-state-audit-failing-to/article_60337fae-2783-11e2-9e19-001a4bcf887a.html http://www.chieftain.com/politics/pueblo-county-voting-machi...

Anjin 14y ago

Unfortunately no, if you read what he wrote in the comments of that submission: Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

hammock 14y ago
It's too bad that the video doesn't provide any evidence supporting that story.
ynniv 14y ago
The video would be truly compelling if he had repeatedly tapped from Romney to Stein. As it is, the video appears to show miscalibration, and only his testimony suggests fraud. If the video showed what he claimed, it would be lawsuit material.
naveensundar 14y ago
The obvious question to ask: Why is that part not shown in the video? Edit: Just watched the video again. The video suspiciously freezes from 11s to 18s. Probably, something inconvenient being edited out amateurishly?
scott_s 14y ago
That still doesn't establish malice.
stevenwei 14y ago
That doesn't actually mean anything. Resistive and infrared touchscreens (especially cheaper ones) can have all sorts of hilarious calibration errors where part of the screen area works perfectly fine, but other parts of the screen are off completely. I used to work on kiosk software for restaurants. At the start of every day we had to go through all of the touchscreens in the restaurant and calibrate them. Sometimes they would lose their calibration halfway through the day and need to be recalibrated multiple times.

TwistedWeasel 14y ago

The consumer electronics industry has shipped hundreds of millions of touch screens in the last few years and i've not seen a single article complaining that they opened up their new tablet/phone to find it mis-calibrated and that their touches were off my such a huge margin. Why are voting machines apparently subject to calibration problems that other touch screen devices are not?

ryanhuff 14y ago
Miscalibrated devices shipped to consumers get returned, resulting in extra costs to the retailer or manufacturer. Miscalibrated voting machines don't.
danielweber 14y ago
1. Because they probably have to standardize on an older model and can't push out newer models at will. 2. Because these machines are open to the general public who are hitting the screens with their meaty fingers all day.
eli 14y ago
Most likely it's the difference between capacitive versus resistive screens. If you purchased your phone based on the lowest bidding vendor, I'd bet there be a lot more problems with it too.
avolcano 14y ago
Not all touch screens are created equal. I remember the old Nintendo DS touch screen, which was resistive, required user calibration where you would press on the corners of the screen. If you missed the corners (which, with the relatively thick stylus and the relatively thick bezel on the original DS, wasn't uncommon), the accuracy of your touch positions would be very notably off, to the point that using touch-screen keyboards in some games would be difficult. Obviously I don't know for sure if this was the exact case with this voting machine, but the point being, some touch screens do require calibration and there is a chance for error. Or, of course, it could simply have been a factory mistake. Either way, I doubt there's any malice behind this error.
jerf 14y ago

waqf 14y ago

> why would an attacker bother to actually show a user they were being manipulated? Because the person who wishes to tamper with the outcome of the election only has access to (or, very likely, skillz to modify) the calibration template (which has to be reconfigured each election, hence is modified by more people), not to the entire source code and tool chain of the voting machine. Most attacks are not gigantic conspiracies with unlimited resources.