3 ms·

What is a router? Really, do they have a definition?

protocolture 7mo ago
Device that connects multiple networks? Layer 3 of the OSI model? Consumer ones tend to have more than that, but the more specific definition would work fine. Yeah conceivably you could use this to ban any network device that is capable of routing between interfaces, so lots of switches with new firmware could do it, often terribly, as well as PCs with multiple interfaces. But its probably going to involve intention.
- dmonitor 7mo ago
  Any PC with a NIC is one VLAN and masquerade rule away from being a router
  - adrian_b 7mo ago
    That is true, but you can also add USB Ethernet interfaces to any PC, which is even simpler. For example, my router/firewall, which also implements various other network services, e.g. hosting my own e-mail server, is an old Intel NUC with 5 Ethernet ports, 4 of which are made with USB Ethernet interfaces.
walterbell 7mo ago
Good question for devices that ship with multiple network interfaces, multiple video outputs, no RAM and no software.
- RiverCrochet 7mo ago
  If multiple network interfaces defines a router, then every cell phone is one, because every cell phone has a cellular and Wifi interface, and is a router in hotspot mode. Three interfaces if you count USB which can also be a network interface (hotspot works over USB in both Windows and Linux) and four if Bluetooth PAN is still a thing.
  - walterbell 7mo ago
    Speaking of phone companies, Apple will be manufacturing Mac Mini in USA. If Apple can make a Neo laptop out of phone parts, they could make a US Airport router out of US mini PC parts.
- reverius42 7mo ago
  All routers ship with software. (edit: and RAM!) (edit: and NOT multiple video outputs!!)
  - walterbell 7mo ago
    x86 multi NIC barebone fanless PC is not for routing, nope.
    - reverius42 7mo ago
      It definitely could be! And some people do use it for that! (edit: but it's not considered a consumer grade router, that's for sure!)
    - dmonitor 7mo ago
      Who said anything about multiple NICs? Ethernet port and Wifi modem in AP mode are more than enough
otterley 7mo ago
The definition is at the bottom of this document https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/NSD-Routers0326.pdf https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/NSD-Routers0326.pdf ...which in turn refers to https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8425A.pdf https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8425A.pdf

Device that connects multiple networks? Layer 3 of the OSI model? Consumer ones tend to have more than that, but the more specific definition would work fine. Yeah conceivably you could use this to ban any network device that is capable of routing between interfaces, so lots of switches with new firmware could do it, often terribly, as well as PCs with multiple interfaces. But its probably going to involve intention.

dmonitor 7mo ago
Any PC with a NIC is one VLAN and masquerade rule away from being a router
- adrian_b 7mo ago
  That is true, but you can also add USB Ethernet interfaces to any PC, which is even simpler. For example, my router/firewall, which also implements various other network services, e.g. hosting my own e-mail server, is an old Intel NUC with 5 Ethernet ports, 4 of which are made with USB Ethernet interfaces.

walterbell 7mo ago

Good question for devices that ship with multiple network interfaces, multiple video outputs, no RAM and no software.

RiverCrochet 7mo ago
If multiple network interfaces defines a router, then every cell phone is one, because every cell phone has a cellular and Wifi interface, and is a router in hotspot mode. Three interfaces if you count USB which can also be a network interface (hotspot works over USB in both Windows and Linux) and four if Bluetooth PAN is still a thing.
- walterbell 7mo ago
  Speaking of phone companies, Apple will be manufacturing Mac Mini in USA. If Apple can make a Neo laptop out of phone parts, they could make a US Airport router out of US mini PC parts.
reverius42 7mo ago
All routers ship with software. (edit: and RAM!) (edit: and NOT multiple video outputs!!)
- walterbell 7mo ago
  x86 multi NIC barebone fanless PC is not for routing, nope.
  - reverius42 7mo ago
    It definitely could be! And some people do use it for that! (edit: but it's not considered a consumer grade router, that's for sure!)
  - dmonitor 7mo ago
    Who said anything about multiple NICs? Ethernet port and Wifi modem in AP mode are more than enough

otterley 7mo ago

The definition is at the bottom of this document https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/NSD-Routers0326.pdf https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/NSD-Routers0326.pdf ...which in turn refers to https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8425A.pdf https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8425A.pdf