4 ms·

Was it even a compliance car? It's eternally fascinating that people can't or won't grasp that the cars cost far more to produce than they could put them to ma

Was it even a compliance car? It's eternally fascinating that people can't or won't grasp that the cars cost far more to produce than they could put them to market for, instead deciding that it was a big conspiracy. It took until ~2015 for batteries to become practical for expensive mass market cars.

ryukoposting 7mo ago
And even now, the fantasy of the $30,000 EV hasn't really been realized. In the US, your only option right now is the Leaf, but good luck finding one for under $32,000.
- xp84 7mo ago
  If that was the fantasy even 6 years ago, the fantasy should have been updated for inflation to a $40,000 EV. I don’t even mean to exaggerate — that’s how much inflation we’ve had since 2020. We have plenty of sub-$40k EVs.
  - monocasa 7mo ago
    Meanwhile Europe has access to $30k EVs because they didn't stock a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Hell, a leapmotor to3 is almost down to $20k.
    - carefree-bob 7mo ago
      Not 100%, but Europe has a 45% tariff rate on SAIC, 27-40% tariff rate on other Chinese EVs. I guarantee you that these will increase as European manufacturers feel the pain.
- slackfan 7mo ago
  To be furiously pedantic: I can walk into my local GM dealer down the road and buy a 2027 Bolt for 29000~ right now.
- HoldOnAMinute 7mo ago
  There's uncountable numbers of used Tesla Model 3's for under $30,000
  - carefree-bob 7mo ago
    There are insanely good values for used Teslas right now. Buying used cars is a bit like investing well in the stock market -- when everyone wants something you will pay a lot, but when the public mood turns sour, that's the time to buy. If you are looking for an EV, I'd really look at a used Tesla over anything new right now. I also heard they are cheapening the Tesla, er, "value engineering", so get the good stuff while you can.
aeturnum 7mo ago
> Was it even a compliance car? I am not an expert but I believe that US regulations require that manufacturers make a range of vehicle types to sell on the US market. You don't need to sell a lot of, say, compact cars - but you need to offer a compact car in order to sell your cash-cow large trucks.
- bluGill 7mo ago
  California not US regulations in this case.
  - aeturnum 7mo ago
    ah! thank you
- ndiddy 7mo ago
  CAFE didn't work like this, it was a lot dumber. Basically it weighed the fuel economy for vehicles under 6000 pounds between two categories: passenger cars (sedans, coupes, wagons) and light trucks (vans, SUVs, crossovers). Passenger cars had an MPG target of ~8 MPG higher than light trucks. Car manufacturers that couldn't get their MPG (weighted between sales of the two categories from that manufacturer) below the targets were fined. Essentially this incentivized car companies to sell fewer passenger cars and more light trucks so their target MPG was lower. This is why crossovers have basically taken over the market in the US. Car manufacturers modified their designs to count as light trucks (lowering the MPG by 1-2), but since the target for light trucks is 8 MPG lower than passenger cars, they look more compliant on paper. We've gone from passenger cars making up ~50% of US car sales in 2000 to ~20% of car sales today. I use the past tense because the Trump admin has gotten rid of the fines for this regulation so it basically doesn't matter anymore (one of the few good moves it's done). It'll be interesting to see if small cars are able to make a recovery in the US, or if it's too late.
  - aeturnum 7mo ago
    I am sure it'll be a few years as manufacturers will worry that a future admin (if we get such a thing lol) could un-remove the fees - but it would be wonderful to see actual small trucks again.

ryukoposting 7mo ago

And even now, the fantasy of the $30,000 EV hasn't really been realized. In the US, your only option right now is the Leaf, but good luck finding one for under $32,000.

xp84 7mo ago
If that was the fantasy even 6 years ago, the fantasy should have been updated for inflation to a $40,000 EV. I don’t even mean to exaggerate — that’s how much inflation we’ve had since 2020. We have plenty of sub-$40k EVs.
- monocasa 7mo ago
  Meanwhile Europe has access to $30k EVs because they didn't stock a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Hell, a leapmotor to3 is almost down to $20k.
  - carefree-bob 7mo ago
    Not 100%, but Europe has a 45% tariff rate on SAIC, 27-40% tariff rate on other Chinese EVs. I guarantee you that these will increase as European manufacturers feel the pain.
slackfan 7mo ago
To be furiously pedantic: I can walk into my local GM dealer down the road and buy a 2027 Bolt for 29000~ right now.
HoldOnAMinute 7mo ago
There's uncountable numbers of used Tesla Model 3's for under $30,000
- carefree-bob 7mo ago
  There are insanely good values for used Teslas right now. Buying used cars is a bit like investing well in the stock market -- when everyone wants something you will pay a lot, but when the public mood turns sour, that's the time to buy. If you are looking for an EV, I'd really look at a used Tesla over anything new right now. I also heard they are cheapening the Tesla, er, "value engineering", so get the good stuff while you can.

aeturnum 7mo ago

> Was it even a compliance car? I am not an expert but I believe that US regulations require that manufacturers make a range of vehicle types to sell on the US market. You don't need to sell a lot of, say, compact cars - but you need to offer a compact car in order to sell your cash-cow large trucks.

bluGill 7mo ago
California not US regulations in this case.
- aeturnum 7mo ago
  ah! thank you
ndiddy 7mo ago
CAFE didn't work like this, it was a lot dumber. Basically it weighed the fuel economy for vehicles under 6000 pounds between two categories: passenger cars (sedans, coupes, wagons) and light trucks (vans, SUVs, crossovers). Passenger cars had an MPG target of ~8 MPG higher than light trucks. Car manufacturers that couldn't get their MPG (weighted between sales of the two categories from that manufacturer) below the targets were fined. Essentially this incentivized car companies to sell fewer passenger cars and more light trucks so their target MPG was lower. This is why crossovers have basically taken over the market in the US. Car manufacturers modified their designs to count as light trucks (lowering the MPG by 1-2), but since the target for light trucks is 8 MPG lower than passenger cars, they look more compliant on paper. We've gone from passenger cars making up ~50% of US car sales in 2000 to ~20% of car sales today. I use the past tense because the Trump admin has gotten rid of the fines for this regulation so it basically doesn't matter anymore (one of the few good moves it's done). It'll be interesting to see if small cars are able to make a recovery in the US, or if it's too late.
- aeturnum 7mo ago
  I am sure it'll be a few years as manufacturers will worry that a future admin (if we get such a thing lol) could un-remove the fees - but it would be wonderful to see actual small trucks again.