4 ms·

> the complete 180 in direction the US is taking and descending in to authoritarianism while moving against the world order The EU is just one AfD win away fro

> the complete 180 in direction the US is taking and descending in to authoritarianism while moving against the world order The EU is just one AfD win away from doing the same thing. It's not immune to this issue either, you have the same problem happening right under your noses.

epolanski 8mo ago
Not really. Most European countries have parliamentary democracies. It's not a winner-takes-all system ala presidential and semi-presidential republics where effectively individuals: 1. rule without opposition. There's no opposition it's not represented in that branch. 2. rule without even needing support of their own parties. The Italian prime minister or the German chancellor have to fight every day in parliament to have support of their parties and the other parties coalitions. 3. a single individual can claim popular mandate. In parliamentary systems you vote for parties/coalitions, not individuals There's a reason why this authoritarian trend goes from the Philippines, Nicaragua, to Belarus, to Turkey, to Russia, to most African countries and now US. They are all presidential republics. The last parliamentary democracy to turn authoritarian has been...Sri Lanka. Almost 50 years ago. Presidential ones? It's basically every year. Systems with winner-takes-all mechanics do not represent voters, and power is too concentrated. Parliamentary democracies might be labeled as less efficient, that I can agree, but they have strong antibodies to such people. See Austria or the Netherlands as examples where strong far right authoritarian-wannabes individuals became prime ministers...and then nothing happened and their governments didn't last.
- nozzlegear 8mo ago
  I agree that presidential systems in particular are problematic, and the EU is lucky that Germany and France use parliamentary systems. But the nasty thing about populism is that it happens in waves and it does overtake parliaments. We need only look at what happened to the UK with Brexit for a recent example. It's not hard to imagine that a wave of far-right populism could one day overtake Germany, or send France's RN, Austria's FPO or Poland's PIS to a majority position. We can cross our fingers and hope that nobody would work with them (I know that Germany's parties all have a pinky promise not to work with AfD), but it was only 10 years ago that everyone in the US was laughing at the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency – and now here we are, much sobered. These things happen, and AfD, or RN, or whoever, could wreak havoc to the EU from within the EU if they took power and started working with Hungary to block EU legislation, veto sanctions, defund programs and more.
  - epolanski 8mo ago
    Well nobody has figured out the perfect political system yet. Except the Swiss.
noobermin 8mo ago
Europeans are so blind to how they are essentially on the same path as the US, the US just got there first.
- messe 8mo ago
  While there is a trend toward the right in many (not all) EU countries, it's a far cry from the shit show on the other side of the Atlantic.
- sofixa 8mo ago
  Most European countries have functioning legal and electoral systems, and more than two parties. On top of that, constitutional courts aren't political appointments. So it would be incredibly hard for a political entity like AfD or RN to gain full and absolute power like the orange has achieved. Even in the worst cases, those parties usually only have ~30% popular support at most, which usually translates to at most ~30-40% of seats in parliament. Which means they cannot even get parliamentary majority, and probably can't get head of state either. Americans just like to pretend things aren't that bad and they aren't the only ones falling into the abyss.
  - u8080 8mo ago
    Could you explain to me (non-US and non-EU resident), how people in EU are okay with mandatory photo scanning on your devices(aka CSAM protection)? Who does this weird proposals like Chat Control? AFAIK, it is not "alt-right" parties - so it really does not clicking for me, why AfD and others constantly brought in during online privacy discussions?
    - messe 8mo ago
      Can you remind me when those actually passed? I can pull equally up equally ridiculous bills from the US that never came to fruition.
      - u8080 8mo ago
        I am not saying passing, but seems there is a large group of politicians(supposedly backed by voters?) who lobby such initiatives who are not some alt-right fascist outliers? (I am not from US, please keep that strawman out)

epolanski 8mo ago

Not really. Most European countries have parliamentary democracies. It's not a winner-takes-all system ala presidential and semi-presidential republics where effectively individuals: 1. rule without opposition. There's no opposition it's not represented in that branch. 2. rule without even needing support of their own parties. The Italian prime minister or the German chancellor have to fight every day in parliament to have support of their parties and the other parties coalitions. 3. a single individual can claim popular mandate. In parliamentary systems you vote for parties/coalitions, not individuals There's a reason why this authoritarian trend goes from the Philippines, Nicaragua, to Belarus, to Turkey, to Russia, to most African countries and now US. They are all presidential republics. The last parliamentary democracy to turn authoritarian has been...Sri Lanka. Almost 50 years ago. Presidential ones? It's basically every year. Systems with winner-takes-all mechanics do not represent voters, and power is too concentrated. Parliamentary democracies might be labeled as less efficient, that I can agree, but they have strong antibodies to such people. See Austria or the Netherlands as examples where strong far right authoritarian-wannabes individuals became prime ministers...and then nothing happened and their governments didn't last.

nozzlegear 8mo ago
I agree that presidential systems in particular are problematic, and the EU is lucky that Germany and France use parliamentary systems. But the nasty thing about populism is that it happens in waves and it does overtake parliaments. We need only look at what happened to the UK with Brexit for a recent example. It's not hard to imagine that a wave of far-right populism could one day overtake Germany, or send France's RN, Austria's FPO or Poland's PIS to a majority position. We can cross our fingers and hope that nobody would work with them (I know that Germany's parties all have a pinky promise not to work with AfD), but it was only 10 years ago that everyone in the US was laughing at the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency – and now here we are, much sobered. These things happen, and AfD, or RN, or whoever, could wreak havoc to the EU from within the EU if they took power and started working with Hungary to block EU legislation, veto sanctions, defund programs and more.
- epolanski 8mo ago
  Well nobody has figured out the perfect political system yet. Except the Swiss.

noobermin 8mo ago

Europeans are so blind to how they are essentially on the same path as the US, the US just got there first.

messe 8mo ago
While there is a trend toward the right in many (not all) EU countries, it's a far cry from the shit show on the other side of the Atlantic.
sofixa 8mo ago
Most European countries have functioning legal and electoral systems, and more than two parties. On top of that, constitutional courts aren't political appointments. So it would be incredibly hard for a political entity like AfD or RN to gain full and absolute power like the orange has achieved. Even in the worst cases, those parties usually only have ~30% popular support at most, which usually translates to at most ~30-40% of seats in parliament. Which means they cannot even get parliamentary majority, and probably can't get head of state either. Americans just like to pretend things aren't that bad and they aren't the only ones falling into the abyss.
- u8080 8mo ago
  Could you explain to me (non-US and non-EU resident), how people in EU are okay with mandatory photo scanning on your devices(aka CSAM protection)? Who does this weird proposals like Chat Control? AFAIK, it is not "alt-right" parties - so it really does not clicking for me, why AfD and others constantly brought in during online privacy discussions?
  - messe 8mo ago
    Can you remind me when those actually passed? I can pull equally up equally ridiculous bills from the US that never came to fruition.
    - u8080 8mo ago
      I am not saying passing, but seems there is a large group of politicians(supposedly backed by voters?) who lobby such initiatives who are not some alt-right fascist outliers? (I am not from US, please keep that strawman out)