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Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tac

by _pdp_ 7mo ago

Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tackled.

flowerthoughts 7mo ago
Could you summarize the easy and hard aspects? Have you had any unexpected benefits or downsides?
- spiderfarmer 7mo ago
  For me: - SES was a big one. There was no affordable alternative at my (not big, not small) scale. - I'm still waning myself personally of GMail. That dependency took decades to build and it will take years for all ties to sever.
  - Aachen 7mo ago
    Maybe this comment downthread helps for the email problem? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47489711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47489711
  - Galorious 7mo ago
    Have you checked out zeptomail by zoho? Not as low cost, but getting close. More basics build in.
    - entropie 7mo ago
      Not EU. > Zoho Corporation is an Indian multinational technology company that makes cloud-based office software.
      - felixg3 7mo ago
        They have EU datacenters and an actually staffed legal entity in Germany .
        entropie 7mo ago
        If so they are not good in mentioning this.
  - koyote 7mo ago
    What is the difficulty in getting away from gmail? I did it a few years ago and I simply signed up for Fastmail and had gmail forward all email there. It forwards to a specific e-mail address so I can see if there are still people/companies that use the old email address. The painful part was going through all my accounts to update the e-mail, but you can do it in stages if you follow the above.
mr_00ff00 7mo ago
What are some of the biggest EU alternatives for US big tech? When I Google this I find a lot of options, but not sure which are actually mature tech companies vs start-up hopefuls
- _pdp_ 7mo ago
  IMHO there are not that many and this is a good thing. You can build them.
pjmlp 7mo ago
Including EU sponsored programming languages and OSes? This is something I think it is a blind spot we have and not big answer, because even if we take into account FOSS, ISO and ECMA languages, the biggest sponsors for those toolchains are US companies. It will take decades to go back to the cold war days, of hardware, programming languages and OSes with European origin.
- deaux 7mo ago
  > EU sponsored programming languages Those really don't matter. > OSes If you're talking about "US sponsoring" of Linux distros, then that doesn't matter either. If you mean Android and iOS, then you're right. There's a super simple heuristic here. Does China care? If not, it doesn't matter. China doesn't care about adopting a Chinese-made programming language instead of Python or Typescript or Rust, meaning control over that isn't important. They do care about OS, which is why they put effort into increasing market share of phones with no American OS.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Actually it matters, that is Huawei came up with ArkTS for HarmonyNEXT.
    - deaux 7mo ago
      It doesn't matter, which is why China (the country) isn't putting weight behind it. There are hundreds of non-Chinese companies with a specific language for their systems. It's completely incomparable to things that China the country does care about, such as the aforementioned mobile OSes. Of course they'd rather the languages and everything else is Chinese-controlled, that's trivially true. But priorities make all the difference, and this one is incredibly low as so to be a waste of time to even mention until everything else is in place.
      - pjmlp 7mo ago
        Depends on how much you want to control the delivery chain regarding possible backdoors, or suddenly losing access to a specific programming language on Github. Even with cloning, those upstream changes are no longer available other than by non official channels.

by _pdp_ 7mo ago

Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tackled.

flowerthoughts 7mo ago

Could you summarize the easy and hard aspects? Have you had any unexpected benefits or downsides?

spiderfarmer 7mo ago
For me: - SES was a big one. There was no affordable alternative at my (not big, not small) scale. - I'm still waning myself personally of GMail. That dependency took decades to build and it will take years for all ties to sever.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  Maybe this comment downthread helps for the email problem? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47489711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47489711
- Galorious 7mo ago
  Have you checked out zeptomail by zoho? Not as low cost, but getting close. More basics build in.
  - entropie 7mo ago
    Not EU. > Zoho Corporation is an Indian multinational technology company that makes cloud-based office software.
    - felixg3 7mo ago
      They have EU datacenters and an actually staffed legal entity in Germany .
      - entropie 7mo ago
        If so they are not good in mentioning this.
- koyote 7mo ago
  What is the difficulty in getting away from gmail? I did it a few years ago and I simply signed up for Fastmail and had gmail forward all email there. It forwards to a specific e-mail address so I can see if there are still people/companies that use the old email address. The painful part was going through all my accounts to update the e-mail, but you can do it in stages if you follow the above.

mr_00ff00 7mo ago

What are some of the biggest EU alternatives for US big tech? When I Google this I find a lot of options, but not sure which are actually mature tech companies vs start-up hopefuls

_pdp_ 7mo ago
IMHO there are not that many and this is a good thing. You can build them.

pjmlp 7mo ago

Including EU sponsored programming languages and OSes? This is something I think it is a blind spot we have and not big answer, because even if we take into account FOSS, ISO and ECMA languages, the biggest sponsors for those toolchains are US companies. It will take decades to go back to the cold war days, of hardware, programming languages and OSes with European origin.

deaux 7mo ago
> EU sponsored programming languages Those really don't matter. > OSes If you're talking about "US sponsoring" of Linux distros, then that doesn't matter either. If you mean Android and iOS, then you're right. There's a super simple heuristic here. Does China care? If not, it doesn't matter. China doesn't care about adopting a Chinese-made programming language instead of Python or Typescript or Rust, meaning control over that isn't important. They do care about OS, which is why they put effort into increasing market share of phones with no American OS.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Actually it matters, that is Huawei came up with ArkTS for HarmonyNEXT.
  - deaux 7mo ago
    It doesn't matter, which is why China (the country) isn't putting weight behind it. There are hundreds of non-Chinese companies with a specific language for their systems. It's completely incomparable to things that China the country does care about, such as the aforementioned mobile OSes. Of course they'd rather the languages and everything else is Chinese-controlled, that's trivially true. But priorities make all the difference, and this one is incredibly low as so to be a waste of time to even mention until everything else is in place.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      Depends on how much you want to control the delivery chain regarding possible backdoors, or suddenly losing access to a specific programming language on Github. Even with cloning, those upstream changes are no longer available other than by non official channels.