7 ms·

Using Win32 to write a UI in Windows is like pulling teeth. There are bindings for Rust but even still it's a nightmare. MacOS is slightly better but Apple's a

Using Win32 to write a UI in Windows is like pulling teeth. There are bindings for Rust but even still it's a nightmare. MacOS is slightly better but Apple's anti-competitive practices targeting developers makes it a tough sell. Linux is better still, technically, but due to the fragmented desktop environment landscape and distribution difficulties, it's also a hard sell. I think it's fair to say that the entire story for native app development is a mess - which is most likely why Electron became so popular. There just isn't a practical sane alternative.

philistine 7mo ago
The sane alternative is macOS because there is one thing that Windows lacks; a community. Since 1984, there have been boutique developers who have spent their whole career working on macOS, making it better and living the dream of working on consumer software. When I look at the apps on Windows, all I see are abandoned projects and MVPs with a borderline malware financial structure.
- eru 7mo ago
  > Since 1984, there have been boutique developers who have spent their whole career working on macOS, making it better and living the dream of working on consumer software. Microsoft has had even more people working on Windows software..
- steve1977 7mo ago
  To be fair, these exist on Windows as well. There's some cool stuff, MyLifeOrganized for example I would consider to be on par with OmniFocus. But I agree that most of the boutique stuff on Windows gets drowned in all the enterprise software a bit.
  - marpstar 7mo ago
    MyLifeOrganized was the biggest thing I gave up when I switched to Mac in 2013. Still miss it -- nothing else (Omnifocus, Things, outliners, etc) has been as effective as a system for me. They've been talking about a potential Mac app for year, I'm on the waiting list, but I've given up hope that it'll ever come. Even if it does, I doubt it'll be as good as it is on Windows.
- leptons 7mo ago
  "Developers, Developers, Developers!" - Steve Balmer Microsoft has always had vastly more developers and development of software for Windows. Apple still after all these years has a tiny market share of overall platforms, software, all of it really. Not sure how you can suggest Apple is somehow the bastion of software development. If you write mac software, you'll be targeting a platform with 15-20% market share at best.
  - philistine 7mo ago
    Isn't software development about making money? On phones, if you want to make money you have to target iOS, since this is where you have the people with money to spend on software. Do you believe that the vastly larger installed base of Windows guarantees more money for everyone?
    - delta_p_delta_x 7mo ago
      At a previous workplace, we released certain software targeted at media/videography professionals for macOS first. The immediate response at conferences was, 'do you have a Windows version? We all use Windows.' Once we ported our software to Windows, the uptake was easily 1.5 orders of magnitude greater than for macOS. The era of 'macOS is a better media computer' is long gone.
    - leptons 7mo ago
      >On phones, if you want to make money you have to target iOS It's funny that you think Android users are broke-ass nobodies. That's some reality-distortion-field fanboi nonsense. And it's also hilarious that you think phone apps are useful software that costs lots of money. Most people in tech with high-paying jobs that I know are using Android, because it's actually pretty awesome compared to the locked-down walled-garden that is Apple. More than half my friends use Android or Windows. They use Android because it isn't as locked-down as iPhone. They use Windows because it runs all the software they want it to run. We also really don't care about Apple's blue bubbles. No, Apple users are not the only ones with jobs. Plenty of Android users have plenty of disposable income. It's a ridiculous argument to make that Apple users have more money to spend. >Do you believe that the vastly larger installed base of Windows guarantees more money for everyone? I don't have to believe it, the market believes it. People vote with their dollars, and they aren't voting for Apple all that often worldwide. Plenty of wealthy people use Android and Windows. I'd wager that most big companies are still run on Windows - and I know this experientially, from back in the day setting up computers for major corps, it was 85% Windows, 15% Apple. Always was, always will be.
- caspar 7mo ago
  Really? I've been a fulltime Linux user for years but there are tons of excellent Windows-only apps. Here are some that I miss: Directory Opus, ShareX, Wiztree, Everything, AltDrag, AutoHotkey, Paint.NET, irfanview, SumatraPDF. I'd add Keepass2 as well but fortunately KeepassXC is a thing. Those are all feature-filled (in the bloat-free good way) and they've all been around for over a decade (from memory). Most are free and open source to boot.
  - LeFantome 7mo ago
    If you like Paint.NET, you may like Pinta on Linux. Also, I am pretty sure that SumatraPDF is available for Linux as well. I am not at a computer but I think it is in the AUR.
userbinator 7mo ago
Win32 is easy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459616 MacOS is not quite so simple: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40085237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40085237
- steve1977 7mo ago
  Comparing oranges to apples. Win32/Win API is (one of) the native API to do Windows programming. Pure C is not the native way to do application programming on macOS. As I mentioned elsewhere, you can bring up a window with a button with no code on macOS. You can make that button show a string on a label with a handful lines of code.
steve1977 7mo ago
Linux as such has no UI - which framework specifically were you thinking of?
- ladyanita22 7mo ago
  Qt or GTK
blub 7mo ago
It’s certainly doable, but not as nice and easy as Delphi or Qt, which are WYSIWYG. Of course, if one is a web developer, even attempting such a feat this could result in a brain-melting experience.
renegade-otter 7mo ago
What about Qt? I am asking - I really don't know.
wolvoleo 7mo ago
I think the biggest reason for Electron is that marketing don't care about native UX but obsessively try to ram the branding down the users' throats. With electron this is much easier because nothing is native and it looks and feels just like the website.

philistine 7mo ago

The sane alternative is macOS because there is one thing that Windows lacks; a community. Since 1984, there have been boutique developers who have spent their whole career working on macOS, making it better and living the dream of working on consumer software. When I look at the apps on Windows, all I see are abandoned projects and MVPs with a borderline malware financial structure.

eru 7mo ago
> Since 1984, there have been boutique developers who have spent their whole career working on macOS, making it better and living the dream of working on consumer software. Microsoft has had even more people working on Windows software..
steve1977 7mo ago
To be fair, these exist on Windows as well. There's some cool stuff, MyLifeOrganized for example I would consider to be on par with OmniFocus. But I agree that most of the boutique stuff on Windows gets drowned in all the enterprise software a bit.
- marpstar 7mo ago
  MyLifeOrganized was the biggest thing I gave up when I switched to Mac in 2013. Still miss it -- nothing else (Omnifocus, Things, outliners, etc) has been as effective as a system for me. They've been talking about a potential Mac app for year, I'm on the waiting list, but I've given up hope that it'll ever come. Even if it does, I doubt it'll be as good as it is on Windows.
leptons 7mo ago
"Developers, Developers, Developers!" - Steve Balmer Microsoft has always had vastly more developers and development of software for Windows. Apple still after all these years has a tiny market share of overall platforms, software, all of it really. Not sure how you can suggest Apple is somehow the bastion of software development. If you write mac software, you'll be targeting a platform with 15-20% market share at best.
- philistine 7mo ago
  Isn't software development about making money? On phones, if you want to make money you have to target iOS, since this is where you have the people with money to spend on software. Do you believe that the vastly larger installed base of Windows guarantees more money for everyone?
  - delta_p_delta_x 7mo ago
    At a previous workplace, we released certain software targeted at media/videography professionals for macOS first. The immediate response at conferences was, 'do you have a Windows version? We all use Windows.' Once we ported our software to Windows, the uptake was easily 1.5 orders of magnitude greater than for macOS. The era of 'macOS is a better media computer' is long gone.
  - leptons 7mo ago
    >On phones, if you want to make money you have to target iOS It's funny that you think Android users are broke-ass nobodies. That's some reality-distortion-field fanboi nonsense. And it's also hilarious that you think phone apps are useful software that costs lots of money. Most people in tech with high-paying jobs that I know are using Android, because it's actually pretty awesome compared to the locked-down walled-garden that is Apple. More than half my friends use Android or Windows. They use Android because it isn't as locked-down as iPhone. They use Windows because it runs all the software they want it to run. We also really don't care about Apple's blue bubbles. No, Apple users are not the only ones with jobs. Plenty of Android users have plenty of disposable income. It's a ridiculous argument to make that Apple users have more money to spend. >Do you believe that the vastly larger installed base of Windows guarantees more money for everyone? I don't have to believe it, the market believes it. People vote with their dollars, and they aren't voting for Apple all that often worldwide. Plenty of wealthy people use Android and Windows. I'd wager that most big companies are still run on Windows - and I know this experientially, from back in the day setting up computers for major corps, it was 85% Windows, 15% Apple. Always was, always will be.
caspar 7mo ago
Really? I've been a fulltime Linux user for years but there are tons of excellent Windows-only apps. Here are some that I miss: Directory Opus, ShareX, Wiztree, Everything, AltDrag, AutoHotkey, Paint.NET, irfanview, SumatraPDF. I'd add Keepass2 as well but fortunately KeepassXC is a thing. Those are all feature-filled (in the bloat-free good way) and they've all been around for over a decade (from memory). Most are free and open source to boot.
- LeFantome 7mo ago
  If you like Paint.NET, you may like Pinta on Linux. Also, I am pretty sure that SumatraPDF is available for Linux as well. I am not at a computer but I think it is in the AUR.

userbinator 7mo ago

Win32 is easy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459616 MacOS is not quite so simple: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40085237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40085237

steve1977 7mo ago
Comparing oranges to apples. Win32/Win API is (one of) the native API to do Windows programming. Pure C is not the native way to do application programming on macOS. As I mentioned elsewhere, you can bring up a window with a button with no code on macOS. You can make that button show a string on a label with a handful lines of code.

steve1977 7mo ago

Linux as such has no UI - which framework specifically were you thinking of?

ladyanita22 7mo ago
Qt or GTK

blub 7mo ago

It’s certainly doable, but not as nice and easy as Delphi or Qt, which are WYSIWYG. Of course, if one is a web developer, even attempting such a feat this could result in a brain-melting experience.

renegade-otter 7mo ago

What about Qt? I am asking - I really don't know.

wolvoleo 7mo ago

I think the biggest reason for Electron is that marketing don't care about native UX but obsessively try to ram the branding down the users' throats. With electron this is much easier because nothing is native and it looks and feels just like the website.