5 ms·

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

by nout 7mo ago

joe_mamba 7mo ago
Western tech direction in the last 5 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL-r8deB5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL-r8deB5o
- gruez 7mo ago
  If you think that's bad, just wait till you see eastern tech.
  - haolez 7mo ago
    That's an interesting topic. Please, elaborate.
    - joe_mamba 7mo ago
      Western surveillance tech is superior because it gives you the option to choose your gender on a fluid scale when they're vacuuming your private data, whereas backwards eastern tech limits you to only male or female.
      - nout 7mo ago
        What about not asking for gender when gender is completely irrelevant to the thing that the user is trying to do?
        joe_mamba 7mo ago
        But how would the government know who's writing mean comments against them online without detailed surveillance?
Muromec 7mo ago
Finally we can set the evil bit correctly on a kernel level.
iugtmkbdfil834 7mo ago
That is ok. The writing was on the wall for a while. It is time to let it go. It served its purpose. We might as well start mapping out a way without it in a more serious way out of sheer necessity. I know I am.
- throwoutA556789 7mo ago
  [dead]
alexdns 7mo ago
it was reverted ?
- crooked-v 7mo ago
  Someone tried to gaslight the maintainers into reverting it and was rejected.
crimsonnoodle58 7mo ago
Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. If someone wants to introduce an age-verification-ca-module, fine, but not make it core. Yes I understand systemd is not the kernel, but its ubiquitous enough. That just says to every country around the world; Windows, Mac, and even Linux is on board too, let's make it law also! I dunno, I always expected Linux to be the last bastion of freedom and not to capitulate so easily.
- wormius 7mo ago
  Systemd has always rubbed me the wrong way, and its uptake across all the base distros turns me off, but at least... https://nosystemd.org/ https://nosystemd.org/ There are still distros without it, I may have to go to one, since I already jumped Win10 to Cachy for the BS MS is pulling. I was going to go systemd-free but Cachy "just worked" compared to the others in terms of setup. So I stuck with it. I wish Lennart would just stop already.
  - wolvoleo 7mo ago
    Yeah it's one of the reasons I run BSD. I don't want stuff changing that works well. And I don't want big tech suits telling me what's good for me. BSD is much less invested in chasing the next big thing, and also has much less contributions from big tech. Which for me are both pluses. Of course I respect those who differ but they have Linux. And when I see what Poettering is working on now with ammutable I'm even more glad I'm not on that train.
  - opan 7mo ago
    Your link's not loading for me, but I can recommend Guix System to anyone looking for a systemd-free distro similar to NixOS. For something Arch-like, there's Void (but beware it is not actually based on Arch, so no AUR or pacman).
- handoflixue 7mo ago
  > Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. 1) It's legally required to sell computers with that OS in certain jurisdictions 2) I presume there is at least one person actually selling said 3) The feature is so trivially easy to bypass that it presents no reasonable privacy threat at this time (IIRC, it's just a numeric field with no validation?)
drnick1 7mo ago
I don't see what prevents anyone (e.g., a distro maintainer) from patching that anti-feature out of the source or disabling with with root access. As long as people can control the software running on their machines, which is the idea behind Linux, nothing that people don't actually want will stay in the system. Systemd shouldn't be foisting this nonsense on Linux users however. I suppose the anti-systemd subset of the Linux community was proven right after all, this is the kind of issue that can end up facing when a huge piece of opinionated software like systemd more or less becomes an indispensable part of Linux.
enoint 7mo ago
Nit: introducing a user account field is not the same as the system bus. It’s in ~/.identity and might be absent altogether.
ranger_danger 7mo ago
> Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
- fsflover 7mo ago
  From your link: > non-fallacious forms of the argument can also exist.[7]: 273–311
  - fc417fc802 7mo ago
    Also most human communication isn't about formal logical reasoning. It's only a fallacy when applied in the form "A therefore B". We can make all sorts of useful and relevant observations about human and societal behavior that aren't logically rigorous.
  - ranger_danger 7mo ago
    Yes they can, but claiming a theoretical future event as fact (or inevitable) I would consider particularly fallacious as it's impossible to prove. And I think history also shows these claims rarely end up happening the way these alarmists think it will. Usually when a slope appears, regulation steps in, technology evolves, or the culture shifts, rather than society devolving into some inescapable dystopian hellscape.
    - fsflover 7mo ago
      Google has been following the trend of locking down Android for a decade. The slippery slope is a fact here.
- sophrosyne42 7mo ago
  A guess for what's next is not a slippery slope argument, let alone a fallacy.
  - ranger_danger 7mo ago
throwawayk7h 7mo ago
to clear up a misconception for everyone, systemd doesn't do age verification. it just lets you set age restrictions on accounts. It's very sensible.
cmxch 7mo ago
And for some distros, it’s a CoC violation to question it.

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

by nout 7mo ago

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

joe_mamba 7mo ago

Western tech direction in the last 5 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL-r8deB5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXL-r8deB5o

gruez 7mo ago
If you think that's bad, just wait till you see eastern tech.
- haolez 7mo ago
  That's an interesting topic. Please, elaborate.
  - joe_mamba 7mo ago
    Western surveillance tech is superior because it gives you the option to choose your gender on a fluid scale when they're vacuuming your private data, whereas backwards eastern tech limits you to only male or female.
    - nout 7mo ago
      What about not asking for gender when gender is completely irrelevant to the thing that the user is trying to do?
      - joe_mamba 7mo ago
        But how would the government know who's writing mean comments against them online without detailed surveillance?

Muromec 7mo ago

Finally we can set the evil bit correctly on a kernel level.

iugtmkbdfil834 7mo ago

That is ok. The writing was on the wall for a while. It is time to let it go. It served its purpose. We might as well start mapping out a way without it in a more serious way out of sheer necessity. I know I am.

throwoutA556789 7mo ago
[dead]

alexdns 7mo ago

it was reverted ?

crooked-v 7mo ago
Someone tried to gaslight the maintainers into reverting it and was rejected.

crimsonnoodle58 7mo ago

Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. If someone wants to introduce an age-verification-ca-module, fine, but not make it core. Yes I understand systemd is not the kernel, but its ubiquitous enough. That just says to every country around the world; Windows, Mac, and even Linux is on board too, let's make it law also! I dunno, I always expected Linux to be the last bastion of freedom and not to capitulate so easily.

wormius 7mo ago
Systemd has always rubbed me the wrong way, and its uptake across all the base distros turns me off, but at least... https://nosystemd.org/ https://nosystemd.org/ There are still distros without it, I may have to go to one, since I already jumped Win10 to Cachy for the BS MS is pulling. I was going to go systemd-free but Cachy "just worked" compared to the others in terms of setup. So I stuck with it. I wish Lennart would just stop already.
- wolvoleo 7mo ago
  Yeah it's one of the reasons I run BSD. I don't want stuff changing that works well. And I don't want big tech suits telling me what's good for me. BSD is much less invested in chasing the next big thing, and also has much less contributions from big tech. Which for me are both pluses. Of course I respect those who differ but they have Linux. And when I see what Poettering is working on now with ammutable I'm even more glad I'm not on that train.
- opan 7mo ago
  Your link's not loading for me, but I can recommend Guix System to anyone looking for a systemd-free distro similar to NixOS. For something Arch-like, there's Void (but beware it is not actually based on Arch, so no AUR or pacman).
handoflixue 7mo ago
> Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. 1) It's legally required to sell computers with that OS in certain jurisdictions 2) I presume there is at least one person actually selling said 3) The feature is so trivially easy to bypass that it presents no reasonable privacy threat at this time (IIRC, it's just a numeric field with no validation?)

drnick1 7mo ago

I don't see what prevents anyone (e.g., a distro maintainer) from patching that anti-feature out of the source or disabling with with root access. As long as people can control the software running on their machines, which is the idea behind Linux, nothing that people don't actually want will stay in the system. Systemd shouldn't be foisting this nonsense on Linux users however. I suppose the anti-systemd subset of the Linux community was proven right after all, this is the kind of issue that can end up facing when a huge piece of opinionated software like systemd more or less becomes an indispensable part of Linux.

enoint 7mo ago

Nit: introducing a user account field is not the same as the system bus. It’s in ~/.identity and might be absent altogether.

ranger_danger 7mo ago

> Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

fsflover 7mo ago
From your link: > non-fallacious forms of the argument can also exist.[7]: 273–311
- fc417fc802 7mo ago
  Also most human communication isn't about formal logical reasoning. It's only a fallacy when applied in the form "A therefore B". We can make all sorts of useful and relevant observations about human and societal behavior that aren't logically rigorous.
- ranger_danger 7mo ago
  Yes they can, but claiming a theoretical future event as fact (or inevitable) I would consider particularly fallacious as it's impossible to prove. And I think history also shows these claims rarely end up happening the way these alarmists think it will. Usually when a slope appears, regulation steps in, technology evolves, or the culture shifts, rather than society devolving into some inescapable dystopian hellscape.
  - fsflover 7mo ago
    Google has been following the trend of locking down Android for a decade. The slippery slope is a fact here.
sophrosyne42 7mo ago
A guess for what's next is not a slippery slope argument, let alone a fallacy.
- ranger_danger 7mo ago

throwawayk7h 7mo ago

to clear up a misconception for everyone, systemd doesn't do age verification. it just lets you set age restrictions on accounts. It's very sensible.

cmxch 7mo ago

And for some distros, it’s a CoC violation to question it.