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I understand that in a research lab or in academia, this is common practice. But in the more menial coding industry that most of us are probably in, how do you
by smokel 7mo ago
I understand that in a research lab or in academia, this is common practice. But in the more menial coding industry that most of us are probably in, how do you find time for this? Do people read papers in their spare time and discuss over lunch, or are there enlightened managers who support this during working hours?
- eldenring 7mo agoI'm not sure what you mean by menial coding but all my employers have supported this in the past. This was a variety of companies, big tech, startups, etc. I think its more likely your employer is the outlier.
- nico 7mo agoI’ve been scolded for reading books and documentation for the tasks and software I was asked to build (at a startup) during my regular work hours No company I’ve worked at has ever had dedicated time for reading papers or articles Maybe I’ve only worked at outliers?
- johngossman 7mo agoIn 35 years in the industry, reading and studying during work hours were always supported. Frankly, most places would let us play video games during work hours as long as we met our deadlines.
- amarant 7mo agoI've had mandated gaming on Friday after lunch. But this was in the gaming industry so it's "market research"! We also often played board games. My favourite was playing secret Hitler with my team that one time. That was fun! (I managed to become "untouchable" while also being Hitler. That's a memorable moment!)
- userbinator 7mo agoAll the companies I've worked at implicitly assume that you're supposed to use your working hours for more than just coding, including learning what you need for the task at hand, although if you're looking at very beginner material that might raise some suspicion.
- nico 7mo agoIn the case I mentioned above, the company wanted me to build a search engine before elastic search existed, and before there was full-text search in popular dbs like Postgres or MySQL. The CTO/founder gave me his credit card and told me to buy whatever books I needed. I bought about 5 different relevant books. Work days were about 10-12hrs, they still wanted me to read/research on my own time
- thi2 7mo agoThats my experience as well. Of course not ten paper a day but some learning is always encouraged. One company had a +1 day. You worked 4 days, had 1 day for learning - everything relevant for the job was fine.
- smokel 7mo agoInterestingly, the person at Microsoft states in a reply that even most of them have to pick this up in their spare time. Judging from other replies, it seems that there are quite some differences in how companies approach this. What I meant with "menial coding" is those jobs where people have to submit TPS reports on how much hours they spend for each customer. Reading a paper such as this one [1] is typically not directly necessary for being a good frontend developer, but it might stimulate someone to develop into a more fruitful employee in the long run. Managers would have to explain to their customer why time is being spent on that, and that requires some vision and creativity, which is not always a given. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762 https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762
- Foe 7mo agoGood question. Most people read the paper on their own time, and we meet over lunch. The meetings themselves are just an hour, so it's not a massive time block. I've found that the people who show up are the ones who are genuinely curious and would be reading this stuff anyway (and sometimes just need a commitment/accountability to do it). Having a group gives them a reason to do it on a schedule.
- zihotki 7mo agoThat implies that you have a fixed time for lunch and also chat during lunch. I may be the minority but I prefer to eat when I'm hungry and focus on the food instead of chatting. And there is also allergies, as a celiac, I have big troubles eating together with others - they may accidently contaminate my food
- tanjtanjtanj 7mo agoI’m actually curious here, not trying to question your experience but does other people’s food regularly contaminate your food when you eat at the same table as them? I’ve lived with a celiac sufferer before and I’ve never heard of something that extreme, but everyone’s different.
- fc417fc802 7mo agoThe degree of sensitivity of allergies varies widely. For example there are people who only have a problem after consuming a large scoop of peanut butter but there are also those who will end up in the hospital from trace amounts that you'd have difficulty spotting with the naked eye.
- FuriouslyAdrift 7mo agoI dated a woman with celiac sprue (which I guess was extreme.. her mother had to have a bowel resection due to celiac related issues) and she had sudden anaphylaxis at a restaurant that required the use of an epi-pen and an ambulance. The reaction was caused by the micro-brewery that had opened next door and all the wheat dust in the ventilation system.
- zihotki 7mo agoThis is a very good question. I also struggle to find a good solution to process various signals (papers, tecniques, etc.) with my co-workers while maintaining proper work-life balance. Either you have to be a full time geek, or be left behind..
- markn951 7mo agoSpeaking as a SWE manager who explicitly “mandates” (not actually mandatory but I strongly encourage following your passions and interests in an academic kind of way!) we do exist, I assume I’m not the only one :) My team almost always can find an hour between tasks organically so I’ve never really had to push
- Insanity 7mo agoI'm a SWE manager as well. I always tell my team that learning is part of the job, and so it can happen on the job. To be honest, it worked out pretty well. and I lead by example, I'll read something interesting during work and share it with the team.
- munchbunny 7mo agoI sneak thirty minutes in here and there for it regardless of my manager. If you work, say, 40-45 hours a week, you’re probably doing 20 hours of true focused productivity. It’s easier to borrow here and there from the other half of the time to flip through a paper or two.
- yellow_postit 7mo agoIn my experience it is a lot like finding time to work on "strategy". There's never really explicit time given, you have to make it in the day, and its often the most valuable time spent.
- rectang 7mo agoThe groups I ran were scheduled during lunch. Technical management would look the other way if we ran over time or if people spent a certain amount of their work day reading the material. Even if you have enlightened technical management, it's helpful if you don't force them to spend political capital justifying groups like this. Getting our enlightened CTO to spend a few hundred dollars on books was easy when we were a startup. Once we got acquired, making that argument to unreceptive higher-ups wasn't worth it for anybody.
- vasco 7mo agoYou could realistically read 2-3 papers per visit to HackerNews if you were doing that instead. Me too.
- OJFord 7mo agoIf it happens in the office and on the calendar then I can't imagine it being an issue? (vs. an extended jolly at the pub every lunch through the afternoon for unofficial 'reading group'!) Would take quite a micromanaging and anti-L&D employer/manager.