10 ms·

I think UBI is a pipe dream. I live in the UK and even with our social safety net which is much stronger than the US's, I can't imagine the government ever hand

by cedws 7mo ago

I think UBI is a pipe dream. I live in the UK and even with our social safety net which is much stronger than the US's, I can't imagine the government ever handing out money adequate to live a middle class life to large chunk of the population. UBI has problems that far as I know haven't been addressed. Vast numbers of people no longer being occupied doesn't seem like it would lead to a healthy society. And how do you uphold democracy when the government is effectively handing out the paychecks?

andai 7mo ago
Recently: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46977175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46977175 Not quite UK, and not very big, but somewhat promising :) >How do you uphold democracy https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/abs/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... >Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. Can't uphold what isn't there, lol As for how do we avoid becoming WALL-E blobs... elite opinion seems to suggest the UBI will be just enough to prevent people from going into the streets with pitchforks, but not enough for a dignified life. (Enough to live in ze pod and eat ze proverbial bugs.) I don't see employment being a very big thing (unless AI creates some kinda fake jobs economy to pacify the humans, which would be a rational thing to do). The crisis of meaning is going to be worse than the economic crisis, and I think people would literally pay to work rather than question their existence on such a deep level. Beyond fake jobs and human-only jobs (robot can't replace the cute barista at Starbucks!), I think entrepreneurship will be the only real vehicle. So... basically how it already is today.
- carlosjobim 7mo ago
  > Not quite UK, and not very big, but somewhat promising :) Rulers have given stipends to artists and scholars for hundreds of years. There's hardly anything new about it. Make the art or science that satisfies the duke or the glorious district chairman and you will be on the receiving end of these benefits.
  - WesolyKubeczek 7mo ago
    Also, among names who did succeed in pursuing these benefits, there are countless forgotten ones who also tried. Almost like startups and youtube streamers of today, who would have thought.
eucyclos 7mo ago
Whoever said anything about middle class? Ubi is the poverty level, it could never be anything else. As for people not being occupied, the theory is that since ubi doesn't stop if you find employment, it would lead to less idleness than the current means-tested social safety nets. In test cases though it seems to depend a lot on culture, Finnish communities saw no difference in employment while Indian rates of business formation tripled.

by cedws 7mo ago

andai 7mo ago

Recently: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46977175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46977175 Not quite UK, and not very big, but somewhat promising :) >How do you uphold democracy https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/abs/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... >Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. Can't uphold what isn't there, lol As for how do we avoid becoming WALL-E blobs... elite opinion seems to suggest the UBI will be just enough to prevent people from going into the streets with pitchforks, but not enough for a dignified life. (Enough to live in ze pod and eat ze proverbial bugs.) I don't see employment being a very big thing (unless AI creates some kinda fake jobs economy to pacify the humans, which would be a rational thing to do). The crisis of meaning is going to be worse than the economic crisis, and I think people would literally pay to work rather than question their existence on such a deep level. Beyond fake jobs and human-only jobs (robot can't replace the cute barista at Starbucks!), I think entrepreneurship will be the only real vehicle. So... basically how it already is today.

carlosjobim 7mo ago
> Not quite UK, and not very big, but somewhat promising :) Rulers have given stipends to artists and scholars for hundreds of years. There's hardly anything new about it. Make the art or science that satisfies the duke or the glorious district chairman and you will be on the receiving end of these benefits.
- WesolyKubeczek 7mo ago
  Also, among names who did succeed in pursuing these benefits, there are countless forgotten ones who also tried. Almost like startups and youtube streamers of today, who would have thought.

eucyclos 7mo ago

Whoever said anything about middle class? Ubi is the poverty level, it could never be anything else. As for people not being occupied, the theory is that since ubi doesn't stop if you find employment, it would lead to less idleness than the current means-tested social safety nets. In test cases though it seems to depend a lot on culture, Finnish communities saw no difference in employment while Indian rates of business formation tripled.