3 ms·

Win32 isn't that hard actually.

zabzonk 7mo ago
To create a simple window, no it isn't. To create a rather complex application, then yes it is, compared with using a higher-level framework.
- modeless 7mo ago
  This article is complaining about the complexity of creating a simple window in Wayland, which is much easier in Win32. Wayland doesn't make creating "a rather complex application" any easier either. In both cases you would use a framework. Even more so in Wayland, which doesn't provide widgets or standard dialogs at all, while Win32 does.
  - seba_dos1 7mo ago
    Creating a simple window in Wayland isn't much harder than in Win32. You get a wl_surface, attach a wl_buffer to it, wrap it with xdg_toplevel and handle some callbacks for resizing etc. There's some boilerplate that allows all this to be extensible in backwards-compatible ways, but nothing complex, really. simple-touch example in Weston repository has about 400 lines. Some compositor's insistence on CSD can make it a bit more complex since you get that in Win32 for free, but on the sane ones you just add xdg-decoration and you're done. Also, this is all apples-to-oranges anyway, as Win32 is a toolkit, while wayland-client is just a protocol (de)serializer.
    - Joker_vD 7mo ago
      > Creating a simple window in Wayland isn't much harder than in Win32. You get a wl_surface, attach a wl_buffer to it, wrap it with xdg_toplevel and handle some callbacks for resizing etc. There's some boilerplate that allows all this to be extensible in backwards-compatible ways, but nothing complex, really. simple-touch example in Weston repository has about 400 lines. I believe the youth nowadays calls what you wrote "copium". Because creating a simple window in Win32 (a whole program, in fact) looks like this: #ifndef UNICODE #define UNICODE #endif #include <windows.h> LRESULT CALLBACK WindowProc(HWND hwnd, UINT uMsg, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam); int WINAPI wWinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, PWSTR pCmdLine, int nCmdShow) { const wchar_t CLASS_NAME[] = L"Sample Window Class"; WNDCLASS wc = { }; wc.lpfnWndProc = WindowProc; wc.hInstance = hInstance; wc.lpszClassName = CLASS_NAME; RegisterClass(&wc); HWND hwnd = CreateWindowEx(0, CLASS_NAME, L"Hello World! Program", WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, NULL, NULL, hInstance, NULL); if (hwnd == NULL) { return 0; } ShowWindow(hwnd, nCmdShow); MSG msg = { }; while (GetMessage(&msg, NULL, 0, 0) > 0) { TranslateMessage(&msg); DispatchMessage(&msg); } return 0; } LRESULT CALLBACK WindowProc(HWND hwnd, UINT uMsg, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam) { switch (uMsg) { case WM_DESTROY: PostQuitMessage(0); return 0; default: return DefWindowProc(hwnd, uMsg, wParam, lParam); } } That's significantly less than 400 lines, and requires essentially just two function calls, RegisterClass and CreateWindowEx, the rest is the message loop and its callback.
      - seba_dos1 7mo ago
        Yes, this isn't much easier than doing it yourself with libwayland-client, even despite of it being a whole layer of abstraction higher (which is obviously why it's shorter, duh). There's more to type when you go lower level, but fundamentally it's still just "get me a window, here's my content, have some callbacks". Toolkits that provide similar (or even simpler) APIs on top of Wayland exist too.

To create a simple window, no it isn't. To create a rather complex application, then yes it is, compared with using a higher-level framework.

modeless 7mo ago
This article is complaining about the complexity of creating a simple window in Wayland, which is much easier in Win32. Wayland doesn't make creating "a rather complex application" any easier either. In both cases you would use a framework. Even more so in Wayland, which doesn't provide widgets or standard dialogs at all, while Win32 does.
- seba_dos1 7mo ago
  Creating a simple window in Wayland isn't much harder than in Win32. You get a wl_surface, attach a wl_buffer to it, wrap it with xdg_toplevel and handle some callbacks for resizing etc. There's some boilerplate that allows all this to be extensible in backwards-compatible ways, but nothing complex, really. simple-touch example in Weston repository has about 400 lines. Some compositor's insistence on CSD can make it a bit more complex since you get that in Win32 for free, but on the sane ones you just add xdg-decoration and you're done. Also, this is all apples-to-oranges anyway, as Win32 is a toolkit, while wayland-client is just a protocol (de)serializer.
  - Joker_vD 7mo ago
    > Creating a simple window in Wayland isn't much harder than in Win32. You get a wl_surface, attach a wl_buffer to it, wrap it with xdg_toplevel and handle some callbacks for resizing etc. There's some boilerplate that allows all this to be extensible in backwards-compatible ways, but nothing complex, really. simple-touch example in Weston repository has about 400 lines. I believe the youth nowadays calls what you wrote "copium". Because creating a simple window in Win32 (a whole program, in fact) looks like this: #ifndef UNICODE #define UNICODE #endif #include <windows.h> LRESULT CALLBACK WindowProc(HWND hwnd, UINT uMsg, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam); int WINAPI wWinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, PWSTR pCmdLine, int nCmdShow) { const wchar_t CLASS_NAME[] = L"Sample Window Class"; WNDCLASS wc = { }; wc.lpfnWndProc = WindowProc; wc.hInstance = hInstance; wc.lpszClassName = CLASS_NAME; RegisterClass(&wc); HWND hwnd = CreateWindowEx(0, CLASS_NAME, L"Hello World! Program", WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, CW_USEDEFAULT, NULL, NULL, hInstance, NULL); if (hwnd == NULL) { return 0; } ShowWindow(hwnd, nCmdShow); MSG msg = { }; while (GetMessage(&msg, NULL, 0, 0) > 0) { TranslateMessage(&msg); DispatchMessage(&msg); } return 0; } LRESULT CALLBACK WindowProc(HWND hwnd, UINT uMsg, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam) { switch (uMsg) { case WM_DESTROY: PostQuitMessage(0); return 0; default: return DefWindowProc(hwnd, uMsg, wParam, lParam); } } That's significantly less than 400 lines, and requires essentially just two function calls, RegisterClass and CreateWindowEx, the rest is the message loop and its callback.
    - seba_dos1 7mo ago
      Yes, this isn't much easier than doing it yourself with libwayland-client, even despite of it being a whole layer of abstraction higher (which is obviously why it's shorter, duh). There's more to type when you go lower level, but fundamentally it's still just "get me a window, here's my content, have some callbacks". Toolkits that provide similar (or even simpler) APIs on top of Wayland exist too.