4 ms·

the question is where they'll be able to sell them: Europe is going to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 so, unless someone finds a loophole, that's a whole ma

the question is where they'll be able to sell them: Europe is going to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 so, unless someone finds a loophole, that's a whole market gone.

xp84 7mo ago
Europe will change their mind when protests start that many people can’t buy a car that they can charge because their home doesn’t have the capacity and public charging scarcity and congestion makes the 1970s gas rationing look convenient. Nearly all these carmakers already do make plenty of EVs. If I’m very wrong and people there wish to buy EVs exclusively, that’s what will sell and what will get made.
- bakies 7mo ago
  Their homes don't have electricity?
  - seabrookmx 7mo ago
    A standard wall socket doesn't provide enough amperage to charge an EV at reasonable rate if you use your car more than once or twice a week. Maybe this is less of a problem in the EU where people generally have shorter commutes, but I could definitely still see it being an issue. I know multiple people that have had to upgrade the main electrical panel in their home to support an EV charger, because their older building did not have enough capacity.
    - tzs 7mo ago
      Don't forget that in the EU household circuits tend to support higher loads than US household circuits. EU typically from what I've read uses 240 V compared to 120 V in the US. They are usually 16 A compared to 15 A in the US. That gives them 3840 W vs 1800 W for the US, but that would just be for intermittent loads. For continuous loads you are supposed to derate that. In the US the continuous limit is 1440 W. From what I've read it is 2800 W in much of Europe. At 3.5 miles/kWh that gives 5 miles/hour charging in the US and 9.8 miles/hour in the EU. In most of the EU that would be enough to cover the average daily commute with 2 hours of charging.
    - Wieldable4640 7mo ago
      Most homes in the EU have a three phase connection and can support 22kW wall charging. Homes in the EU can draw more power than homes in the US as we use 240V with the same amount of amps. That’s also part of the reason why we use kettles as we can boil water roughly 2x faster (they can draw up to 3kW while operating!)
      - joe_mamba 7mo ago
        >Most homes in the EU have a three phase connection and can support 22kW wall charging. Most Europeans don't live in single family homes for this to be a practical advantage.
        xoa 7mo ago
        >Most Europeans don't live in single family homes for this to be a practical advantage. Uh, where are you getting that from? From what I can tell at sources like [0] "most" Europeans overall (though with very significant country variance) do live in detached or semi-detached housing. Most also own it. Further, even for those in flats the higher voltage EU's grid runs at still means easier higher kilowatts at parking lot or garage chargers, so it's still an advantage anyway? ---- 0: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20210521-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/d...
        joe_mamba 7mo ago
        Most people live in apartment buildings(flats), not in detached housing. Urban speaking. The country with detached housing already ahs EVs.
  - adrian_b 7mo ago
    Many people live in apartments and they do not have a garage. You cannot connect a cable from your home at the 10th floor to a car that may be hundreds of m away.
    - sroussey 7mo ago
      There are companies selling streetlight replacements with chargers. They may get a lot of business in the next decade.
  - xp84 7mo ago
    Everyone in Europe has a garage in their home?
    - youknownothing 7mo ago
      I'm European, in my 40 years living in Europe I have never had a garage. I don't know where you're getting that idea from.
    - bakies 7mo ago
      Garage is not a requirement
joe_mamba 7mo ago
> Europe is going to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 so A law made up on the way the economy and purchasing power was going in 2020. The reality now is way different. If you don't adjust laws based on economic reality you're gonna have a bad time.

the question is where they'll be able to sell them: Europe is going to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 so, unless someone finds a loophole, that's a whole market gone.

xp84 7mo ago

Europe will change their mind when protests start that many people can’t buy a car that they can charge because their home doesn’t have the capacity and public charging scarcity and congestion makes the 1970s gas rationing look convenient. Nearly all these carmakers already do make plenty of EVs. If I’m very wrong and people there wish to buy EVs exclusively, that’s what will sell and what will get made.

bakies 7mo ago
Their homes don't have electricity?
- seabrookmx 7mo ago
  A standard wall socket doesn't provide enough amperage to charge an EV at reasonable rate if you use your car more than once or twice a week. Maybe this is less of a problem in the EU where people generally have shorter commutes, but I could definitely still see it being an issue. I know multiple people that have had to upgrade the main electrical panel in their home to support an EV charger, because their older building did not have enough capacity.
  - tzs 7mo ago
    Don't forget that in the EU household circuits tend to support higher loads than US household circuits. EU typically from what I've read uses 240 V compared to 120 V in the US. They are usually 16 A compared to 15 A in the US. That gives them 3840 W vs 1800 W for the US, but that would just be for intermittent loads. For continuous loads you are supposed to derate that. In the US the continuous limit is 1440 W. From what I've read it is 2800 W in much of Europe. At 3.5 miles/kWh that gives 5 miles/hour charging in the US and 9.8 miles/hour in the EU. In most of the EU that would be enough to cover the average daily commute with 2 hours of charging.
  - Wieldable4640 7mo ago
    Most homes in the EU have a three phase connection and can support 22kW wall charging. Homes in the EU can draw more power than homes in the US as we use 240V with the same amount of amps. That’s also part of the reason why we use kettles as we can boil water roughly 2x faster (they can draw up to 3kW while operating!)
    - joe_mamba 7mo ago
      >Most homes in the EU have a three phase connection and can support 22kW wall charging. Most Europeans don't live in single family homes for this to be a practical advantage.
      - xoa 7mo ago
        >Most Europeans don't live in single family homes for this to be a practical advantage. Uh, where are you getting that from? From what I can tell at sources like [0] "most" Europeans overall (though with very significant country variance) do live in detached or semi-detached housing. Most also own it. Further, even for those in flats the higher voltage EU's grid runs at still means easier higher kilowatts at parking lot or garage chargers, so it's still an advantage anyway? ---- 0: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20210521-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/d...
        joe_mamba 7mo ago
        Most people live in apartment buildings(flats), not in detached housing. Urban speaking. The country with detached housing already ahs EVs.
- adrian_b 7mo ago
  Many people live in apartments and they do not have a garage. You cannot connect a cable from your home at the 10th floor to a car that may be hundreds of m away.
  - sroussey 7mo ago
    There are companies selling streetlight replacements with chargers. They may get a lot of business in the next decade.
- xp84 7mo ago
  Everyone in Europe has a garage in their home?
  - youknownothing 7mo ago
    I'm European, in my 40 years living in Europe I have never had a garage. I don't know where you're getting that idea from.
  - bakies 7mo ago
    Garage is not a requirement

joe_mamba 7mo ago

> Europe is going to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 so A law made up on the way the economy and purchasing power was going in 2020. The reality now is way different. If you don't adjust laws based on economic reality you're gonna have a bad time.