4 ms·

The Waiting Place

229 points by olivercameron 14y ago

casca 14y ago
A good reminder that we are often waiting for things that are within our power to change. There might be a temptation on HN to read this as "you should quit everything and do a startup!", but hopefully it will be read to apply to other aspects of life too.
mehulkar 14y ago
Related poem I wrote a year and some ago: http://mehulkar.com/posts/15 http://mehulkar.com/posts/15
grinich 14y ago
I think my favorite reading of "Oh, the Places You'll Go" is the Burning Man version. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahv_1IS7SiE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahv_1IS7SiE
- rms 14y ago
  Without a doubt!
Swizec 14y ago
This has always been a problem for me, I'm very huge on waiting and then doing a bunch of shit in the mean time because I'm bored. The problem is twofold: 1. I keep creating stuff that I don't care enough about. Thus it doesn't get the love it deserves and after a while starts looking bad on my "permanent record". 2. Because I keep being busy with things, the thing I'm waiting for keeps getting pushed back. This sucks and I often try very hard to avoid this problem. One thing I've started doing is that whenever I get an impulse to say "I have to wait for X", I try to understand why I'm waiting. if I can't come up with a really good reason (for instance, because the market/tech opportunity for project X isn't there yet, or maybe I simply can't fit another X into my life), then I shelf X for a while. My biggest X is "move out of country". The reason for waiting is I don't have enough money saved up for a buffer to tie me over possible/probable dips in freelancing income. I think this is a good enough reason for waiting.
- DanielStarling 14y ago
  This is not necessarily helpful, but consider eliminating "wait" as a thing you can do. If it is true you cannot leave the country due to financial constrains and you do not wish to do it as a result, then stop waiting to leave. Now your focus can be re-targeted to doing -- so long as it's not doing waiting. It sounds like you have freelancing aspirations. Perhaps something worth doing is building a solid social network with a referral program. A bonafide consultancy. You may still want to go to another country, but you aren't waiting to do it -- you are starting a consultancy. There may come a day when you see the financial success you set out for. You'll note you want to leave the country, so you will book a ticket for next week and set up an apartment. You'll just do it. Semantically, you still waited. Mentally, you took action -- so there was no negative fallout usually associated with waiting. Always commit fully to your present task, do not let the delusion of waiting creep in and breed complacency. It's what I am trying, at least... human nature does have a lot of exploits.
  - Swizec 14y ago
    As I've explained to jacquesm ... while I "wait" to leave the country, I'm spinning up a freelancing business to the point where it's a reliable income stream so I don't find myself in a situation where I take on jobs out of desperation. But this is a matter of perspective. Ask my mum and she'll tell you I'm a bohemian idiot who doesn't want to get a regular job and dicks around on his computer all day.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  hey Swizec, > The reason for waiting is I don't have enough money saved up for a buffer to tie me over possible/probable dips in freelancing income. I think this is a good enough reason for waiting. There are always plenty of reasons for not doing stuff, but life is made up of the stuff that you do, not of the stuff that you postpone. There is a song (in French) about a guy that his whole life long wants to go see the gulf of Mexico, and on his dying bed his wife tells him 'If you'd have had any guts you would have gone there to see it'. It's a pretty rude ending to an otherwise perfectly sweet song but there is a grain of truth in there. You're young, fairly talented. You could likely land anywhere and make it, and even if you don't it'd be a fantastic adventure and you'll be smarter and with a broader horizon regardless of the outcome. I've moved countries several times and likely will do so again at some point in the future so this is not me telling you how it could work in theory. It can work. It can work for you too. One way in which you could finance your move is by working free-lance for companies via the net. I know a few people doing this right now and they can pretty much work from anywhere in the world. Enjoy your freedom while you're still mobile, young and healthy.
pizza 14y ago
I used to come up with, never implement, and completely forget about good ideas. So I decided to make a rainy day ideas list. Somehow I've managed to populate a text file with at least twenty ideas that I find at least somewhat valuable, so those ideas are what I try to write to life whenever I have some downtime, and it's been really rewarding to build some of them. My advice? Go out and make your ideas.txt (or bucketlist.txt) file today!
yeonhoyoon 14y ago
For anyone interested in further development of the idea presented in the article, I recommend books 'Power of Now' and 'A New Earth' by Eckhart Tolle. Life changing books.
kiba 14y ago
I meant to start khanacademy after I finish a book on arduino, or a computer science course. But of course, I never really got around to that with an attitude like that. Then I decided, "---- that shit!" and just go ahead and do khanacademy. The result? I worked weeks after weeks on khanacademy,(spending at least an hour) and now I completed 83% of all of the math exercises and concepts. 316 concepts are mastered out of 379, and 63 more concepts to go. Combined with a couple of good habits, I have perpetual emotions like "OH YEAH." or "---- YEAH" or "I AM A BADASS" because I keep doing thing that is productive and meaningful to me. Which is kinda odd, because you expect the hedonistic trendmill to catch up with the level you are at.
notlisted 14y ago
Loved that book. Agree on the advice. If only I'd read it 25 years ago. For the young'uns: don't wait till it all makes sense to you. Every word in it is true.
noonespecial 14y ago
Again It seems we meet In the spaces In between We always say, "Won't be long" Oh but something's always wrong
pooriaazimi 14y ago
I remember reading this or something alarmingly similar (that too was about Oh, The Places You’ll Go!) a while back on HN... But this one was published today! What the hell is going on? Is it deja vu or it's just a happy coincidence?!! Edit: Good... "Oh, The Places You'll Go! site:news.ycombinator.com" Google search helped me assure myself I'm not crazy. This is the other article: http://daltoncaldwell.com/oh-the-places-youll-go http://daltoncaldwell.com/oh-the-places-youll-go and HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4061059 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4061059 Funny thing is that both are using Svbtle, which helped further confuse me. I won't remove this comment (which is definitely off-topic and non-constructive) because I think others might experience the same shock as mine and it would save them a bit of Googling...
- colinsidoti 14y ago
  I've quoted it before as well, not at all surprised to see it again. You should buy and read the book. Unlike most times people tell you to read a book, it'll actually only take 10 minutes.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Ironically, svbtle has centrally controlled themes in an attempt to make each blog distinct.
troymc 14y ago
Theodore Geisel did start writing under his real name, for his college's humor magazine. But then he and his friends got caught drinking gin and the dean banned them from extracurricular activities, including writing for the magazine. That's when he started writing under a pen name: his middle name... Seuss. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss#College http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss#College
molbioguy 14y ago
If Theodore Geisel felt he was stuck in the waiting place for too long (and therefore missed his chance to write the great American novel), his work does not reflect it and is obviously immensely important. So was he really right about how bad the "waiting place" is, given the work he actually created while there?
mercuryrising 14y ago
I fell into this trap recently. I had a pretty good PCB design that had been lying around for a month, which I started designing about four months ago. I kept waiting though. I wanted to think of something that would be a problem and solve it before I have to. I want to jump a generation of iterating. And I did this for about a month. I waited a month, when I could have spent $25 and gotten boards by the time I started working on it again. Real world feedback is unparalleled in its ability to let you see what you're doing. I'm still waiting on the boards, but they'll be here soon and then I start making it... Since I sent it out, I have thought of a couple nice 'features' that would have reduced some of my work load, but only about 3 minutes a board. I waited a month to save three minutes........ I forget what author I was reading (one of the many posts on 'doing something') when I had a moment of clarity - JUST SEND THE DAMN THING OUT. I reviewed it a little bit, said whatever, sent it out. We'll see how it works when I get it. It's easy to forget how nice it is do develop software. You get instant feedback as to whether something works on the surface level. It would be much worse to code on a system where you wrote 100 lines of code, had to send it out and get the compiled version back in a week. Syntax error on line 4, no feedback given for lines 5-100. Hardware is a much more elusive beast, but having something physical, something that you can bring with you, that isn't created from a plane of RGB lights, that you can hold, touch, and feel. There's always a double edged sword, for every problem there is an opportunity, you lose a little bit of something for every convenience you take up in your life, the hardware software divide is one with the sense of touch and smell. Software currently doesn't feel or smell like anything. It doesn't weigh anything. It has no value outside of the tubes. A piece of hardware can reach across different boundaries and engage different senses.
- bisrig 14y ago
  Besides a generic wish of a pleasant board bring up, I just wanted to pass along this message: the fear of cutting your board is only matched by the joy of seeing it come up for the first time. And even better, that's when the learning starts. Good luck!
brandall10 14y ago
I love Dr. Seuss... just a quick note to anyone who is a fan of his, the last episode of South Park pays a nice homage. But the one written work that really gets under my skin, in the vein of being a spectator vs. participant in life... and this might be cliche, but it's Pink Floyd's song Time. ...Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town Waiting for someone or something to show you the way... ...And then the one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run you missed the starting gun... ...The time is gone the song is over, thought I'd something more to say... But then it goes on, yet there is a shift in tone. Instead of worry, it is utter resignation. What I find particularly interesting is this was written when the band felt they were losing relevance - by this point they had a run as long as and were about as old as The Beatles when they had broken up. A rock band back then entering their 30s who hadn't really broken out was doomed, right? What examples to the contrary were there? Yet Dark Side of the Moon is where their life as cultural icons began. Time is the only song on the album credited to all four members of the band. I'm 36 years old and spent the first 15 years of my professional life working in the enterprise doing C++/C#, with all the wonderful trappings of Office Space. I'm proud of some of the work I did but overall I was pretty unhappy. 5 mos ago I quit my job to become a contractor. I do Rails work for a couple long-term clients based in NYC. This might not be a big deal to most people here... all I can say is I've never been happier. It's like, "I did it. And this is just the beginning." They say it takes only 21 days to cultivate a habit. They also say major life decisions can happen in an instant, like a flick of the switch. I don't know how much of that is actually true, perhaps it's best to not ponder things like that too much.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  As someone who hit that (perceived small but really large milestone) at 40, only last year, good luck, well done and keep on going. Don't want to sound patronising or empty, but that's great - keep going
- atas 14y ago
  I have the same age as you. One year ago I was thinking of quitting my job to turn my hobby into a business. I thought of staying in my hometown (cheap but not start-up friendly and family and friends would just see me as 'unemployed'), but I took an offer instead for a more business-oriented role to move abroad. Then one day, as a visitor in a nearby country (cheap and start-up friendly, far away from anyone I know) I saw an advertisement on the street of apartments for sale and it struck me. I now have a plan of moving to this country with cheap cost of living after I finish with my current project. I always thought of leaving my country as a good way to get me started (leaving next to family would just give me a delusion of security, would make me more complacent and/or I had to deal with discouragement), but cost of living would be a factor for staying anyway. Why I am saying all this? From just visiting a country as a tourist, a plan came up. And if I hadn't taken that offer maybe I would have quit. Or maybe not. And I am still considering of applying for some jobs abroad in the meantime (more waiting). But at least a more solid long-term plan has formed in the background now.
rushabh 14y ago
Waiting has its own beauty. If you are waiting for the bus, you are reading HN on phone, or listening music or just observing. In today's world, where you are bombarded with stimulation, you will always have the impulse to do this or that or visit someplace or follow a fashion. Sometimes is just nice to wait or you won't be able to experience life fully. Beautifully explained Elizabeth Jennings in Delay: The radiance of the star that leans on me Was shining years ago. The light that now Glitters up there my eyes may never see, And so the time lag teases me with how Love that loves now may not reach me until Its first desire is spent. The star's impulse Must wait for eyes to claim it beautiful And love arrived may find us somewhere else.
countessa 14y ago
On the other hand, the trap of always "doing" something or "going" somewhere is equally harmful. You can trick yourself into thinking you are achieving something when you are just spinning your wheels. Like anything, balance is the key. "If you can wait and not be tired by waiting" - Kippling
tingletech 14y ago
Geisel also did propaganda cartoons during WWII http://libraries.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dswenttowar/ http://libraries.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dswenttowar/

229 points by olivercameron 14y ago

casca 14y ago

A good reminder that we are often waiting for things that are within our power to change. There might be a temptation on HN to read this as "you should quit everything and do a startup!", but hopefully it will be read to apply to other aspects of life too.

mehulkar 14y ago

Related poem I wrote a year and some ago: http://mehulkar.com/posts/15 http://mehulkar.com/posts/15

grinich 14y ago

I think my favorite reading of "Oh, the Places You'll Go" is the Burning Man version. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahv_1IS7SiE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahv_1IS7SiE

rms 14y ago
Without a doubt!

Swizec 14y ago

This has always been a problem for me, I'm very huge on waiting and then doing a bunch of shit in the mean time because I'm bored. The problem is twofold: 1. I keep creating stuff that I don't care enough about. Thus it doesn't get the love it deserves and after a while starts looking bad on my "permanent record". 2. Because I keep being busy with things, the thing I'm waiting for keeps getting pushed back. This sucks and I often try very hard to avoid this problem. One thing I've started doing is that whenever I get an impulse to say "I have to wait for X", I try to understand why I'm waiting. if I can't come up with a really good reason (for instance, because the market/tech opportunity for project X isn't there yet, or maybe I simply can't fit another X into my life), then I shelf X for a while. My biggest X is "move out of country". The reason for waiting is I don't have enough money saved up for a buffer to tie me over possible/probable dips in freelancing income. I think this is a good enough reason for waiting.

DanielStarling 14y ago
This is not necessarily helpful, but consider eliminating "wait" as a thing you can do. If it is true you cannot leave the country due to financial constrains and you do not wish to do it as a result, then stop waiting to leave. Now your focus can be re-targeted to doing -- so long as it's not doing waiting. It sounds like you have freelancing aspirations. Perhaps something worth doing is building a solid social network with a referral program. A bonafide consultancy. You may still want to go to another country, but you aren't waiting to do it -- you are starting a consultancy. There may come a day when you see the financial success you set out for. You'll note you want to leave the country, so you will book a ticket for next week and set up an apartment. You'll just do it. Semantically, you still waited. Mentally, you took action -- so there was no negative fallout usually associated with waiting. Always commit fully to your present task, do not let the delusion of waiting creep in and breed complacency. It's what I am trying, at least... human nature does have a lot of exploits.
- Swizec 14y ago
  As I've explained to jacquesm ... while I "wait" to leave the country, I'm spinning up a freelancing business to the point where it's a reliable income stream so I don't find myself in a situation where I take on jobs out of desperation. But this is a matter of perspective. Ask my mum and she'll tell you I'm a bohemian idiot who doesn't want to get a regular job and dicks around on his computer all day.
jacquesm 14y ago
hey Swizec, > The reason for waiting is I don't have enough money saved up for a buffer to tie me over possible/probable dips in freelancing income. I think this is a good enough reason for waiting. There are always plenty of reasons for not doing stuff, but life is made up of the stuff that you do, not of the stuff that you postpone. There is a song (in French) about a guy that his whole life long wants to go see the gulf of Mexico, and on his dying bed his wife tells him 'If you'd have had any guts you would have gone there to see it'. It's a pretty rude ending to an otherwise perfectly sweet song but there is a grain of truth in there. You're young, fairly talented. You could likely land anywhere and make it, and even if you don't it'd be a fantastic adventure and you'll be smarter and with a broader horizon regardless of the outcome. I've moved countries several times and likely will do so again at some point in the future so this is not me telling you how it could work in theory. It can work. It can work for you too. One way in which you could finance your move is by working free-lance for companies via the net. I know a few people doing this right now and they can pretty much work from anywhere in the world. Enjoy your freedom while you're still mobile, young and healthy.

pizza 14y ago

I used to come up with, never implement, and completely forget about good ideas. So I decided to make a rainy day ideas list. Somehow I've managed to populate a text file with at least twenty ideas that I find at least somewhat valuable, so those ideas are what I try to write to life whenever I have some downtime, and it's been really rewarding to build some of them. My advice? Go out and make your ideas.txt (or bucketlist.txt) file today!

yeonhoyoon 14y ago

For anyone interested in further development of the idea presented in the article, I recommend books 'Power of Now' and 'A New Earth' by Eckhart Tolle. Life changing books.

kiba 14y ago

I meant to start khanacademy after I finish a book on arduino, or a computer science course. But of course, I never really got around to that with an attitude like that. Then I decided, "---- that shit!" and just go ahead and do khanacademy. The result? I worked weeks after weeks on khanacademy,(spending at least an hour) and now I completed 83% of all of the math exercises and concepts. 316 concepts are mastered out of 379, and 63 more concepts to go. Combined with a couple of good habits, I have perpetual emotions like "OH YEAH." or "---- YEAH" or "I AM A BADASS" because I keep doing thing that is productive and meaningful to me. Which is kinda odd, because you expect the hedonistic trendmill to catch up with the level you are at.

notlisted 14y ago

Loved that book. Agree on the advice. If only I'd read it 25 years ago. For the young'uns: don't wait till it all makes sense to you. Every word in it is true.

noonespecial 14y ago

Again It seems we meet In the spaces In between We always say, "Won't be long" Oh but something's always wrong

pooriaazimi 14y ago

I remember reading this or something alarmingly similar (that too was about Oh, The Places You’ll Go!) a while back on HN... But this one was published today! What the hell is going on? Is it deja vu or it's just a happy coincidence?!! Edit: Good... "Oh, The Places You'll Go! site:news.ycombinator.com" Google search helped me assure myself I'm not crazy. This is the other article: http://daltoncaldwell.com/oh-the-places-youll-go http://daltoncaldwell.com/oh-the-places-youll-go and HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4061059 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4061059 Funny thing is that both are using Svbtle, which helped further confuse me. I won't remove this comment (which is definitely off-topic and non-constructive) because I think others might experience the same shock as mine and it would save them a bit of Googling...

colinsidoti 14y ago
I've quoted it before as well, not at all surprised to see it again. You should buy and read the book. Unlike most times people tell you to read a book, it'll actually only take 10 minutes.
Evbn 14y ago
Ironically, svbtle has centrally controlled themes in an attempt to make each blog distinct.

troymc 14y ago

Theodore Geisel did start writing under his real name, for his college's humor magazine. But then he and his friends got caught drinking gin and the dean banned them from extracurricular activities, including writing for the magazine. That's when he started writing under a pen name: his middle name... Seuss. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss#College http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss#College

molbioguy 14y ago

If Theodore Geisel felt he was stuck in the waiting place for too long (and therefore missed his chance to write the great American novel), his work does not reflect it and is obviously immensely important. So was he really right about how bad the "waiting place" is, given the work he actually created while there?

mercuryrising 14y ago

I fell into this trap recently. I had a pretty good PCB design that had been lying around for a month, which I started designing about four months ago. I kept waiting though. I wanted to think of something that would be a problem and solve it before I have to. I want to jump a generation of iterating. And I did this for about a month. I waited a month, when I could have spent $25 and gotten boards by the time I started working on it again. Real world feedback is unparalleled in its ability to let you see what you're doing. I'm still waiting on the boards, but they'll be here soon and then I start making it... Since I sent it out, I have thought of a couple nice 'features' that would have reduced some of my work load, but only about 3 minutes a board. I waited a month to save three minutes........ I forget what author I was reading (one of the many posts on 'doing something') when I had a moment of clarity - JUST SEND THE DAMN THING OUT. I reviewed it a little bit, said whatever, sent it out. We'll see how it works when I get it. It's easy to forget how nice it is do develop software. You get instant feedback as to whether something works on the surface level. It would be much worse to code on a system where you wrote 100 lines of code, had to send it out and get the compiled version back in a week. Syntax error on line 4, no feedback given for lines 5-100. Hardware is a much more elusive beast, but having something physical, something that you can bring with you, that isn't created from a plane of RGB lights, that you can hold, touch, and feel. There's always a double edged sword, for every problem there is an opportunity, you lose a little bit of something for every convenience you take up in your life, the hardware software divide is one with the sense of touch and smell. Software currently doesn't feel or smell like anything. It doesn't weigh anything. It has no value outside of the tubes. A piece of hardware can reach across different boundaries and engage different senses.

bisrig 14y ago
Besides a generic wish of a pleasant board bring up, I just wanted to pass along this message: the fear of cutting your board is only matched by the joy of seeing it come up for the first time. And even better, that's when the learning starts. Good luck!

brandall10 14y ago

I love Dr. Seuss... just a quick note to anyone who is a fan of his, the last episode of South Park pays a nice homage. But the one written work that really gets under my skin, in the vein of being a spectator vs. participant in life... and this might be cliche, but it's Pink Floyd's song Time. ...Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town Waiting for someone or something to show you the way... ...And then the one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run you missed the starting gun... ...The time is gone the song is over, thought I'd something more to say... But then it goes on, yet there is a shift in tone. Instead of worry, it is utter resignation. What I find particularly interesting is this was written when the band felt they were losing relevance - by this point they had a run as long as and were about as old as The Beatles when they had broken up. A rock band back then entering their 30s who hadn't really broken out was doomed, right? What examples to the contrary were there? Yet Dark Side of the Moon is where their life as cultural icons began. Time is the only song on the album credited to all four members of the band. I'm 36 years old and spent the first 15 years of my professional life working in the enterprise doing C++/C#, with all the wonderful trappings of Office Space. I'm proud of some of the work I did but overall I was pretty unhappy. 5 mos ago I quit my job to become a contractor. I do Rails work for a couple long-term clients based in NYC. This might not be a big deal to most people here... all I can say is I've never been happier. It's like, "I did it. And this is just the beginning." They say it takes only 21 days to cultivate a habit. They also say major life decisions can happen in an instant, like a flick of the switch. I don't know how much of that is actually true, perhaps it's best to not ponder things like that too much.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
As someone who hit that (perceived small but really large milestone) at 40, only last year, good luck, well done and keep on going. Don't want to sound patronising or empty, but that's great - keep going
atas 14y ago
I have the same age as you. One year ago I was thinking of quitting my job to turn my hobby into a business. I thought of staying in my hometown (cheap but not start-up friendly and family and friends would just see me as 'unemployed'), but I took an offer instead for a more business-oriented role to move abroad. Then one day, as a visitor in a nearby country (cheap and start-up friendly, far away from anyone I know) I saw an advertisement on the street of apartments for sale and it struck me. I now have a plan of moving to this country with cheap cost of living after I finish with my current project. I always thought of leaving my country as a good way to get me started (leaving next to family would just give me a delusion of security, would make me more complacent and/or I had to deal with discouragement), but cost of living would be a factor for staying anyway. Why I am saying all this? From just visiting a country as a tourist, a plan came up. And if I hadn't taken that offer maybe I would have quit. Or maybe not. And I am still considering of applying for some jobs abroad in the meantime (more waiting). But at least a more solid long-term plan has formed in the background now.

rushabh 14y ago

Waiting has its own beauty. If you are waiting for the bus, you are reading HN on phone, or listening music or just observing. In today's world, where you are bombarded with stimulation, you will always have the impulse to do this or that or visit someplace or follow a fashion. Sometimes is just nice to wait or you won't be able to experience life fully. Beautifully explained Elizabeth Jennings in Delay: The radiance of the star that leans on me Was shining years ago. The light that now Glitters up there my eyes may never see, And so the time lag teases me with how Love that loves now may not reach me until Its first desire is spent. The star's impulse Must wait for eyes to claim it beautiful And love arrived may find us somewhere else.

countessa 14y ago

On the other hand, the trap of always "doing" something or "going" somewhere is equally harmful. You can trick yourself into thinking you are achieving something when you are just spinning your wheels. Like anything, balance is the key. "If you can wait and not be tired by waiting" - Kippling

tingletech 14y ago

Geisel also did propaganda cartoons during WWII http://libraries.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dswenttowar/ http://libraries.ucsd.edu/speccoll/dswenttowar/