3 ms·

I read the whole thing an hour ago and I'm still not through processing all of the pros and the cons but the thing that really stands out for me is the degradat

I read the whole thing an hour ago and I'm still not through processing all of the pros and the cons but the thing that really stands out for me is the degradation and the lack of humanity. A hospital taking a patient to court is on a level that I can not square with the Hippocratic Oath. During COVID there were all these people talking about 'bodily autonomy' and I felt that was overblown, vaccines are one of the best things that have happened to humanity and the only reason that a very large number of inevitably fatal or grievously harming diseases have come under control and are no longer a cause for infant mortality or lifelong paralysis. But this is on another level, very personal and immediate and I find I can't shift my perspective to the 'common good' one here. A hospital performing surgery on you that you explicitly say you do not want and then forcing you by putting you in court through 'zoom' is such a mis-application of technology that I wonder if they remember why they are there in the first place. This does not feel like care to me. I've been in hospital a couple of times in my life and I never had the idea that that machine that was taking care of me could turn against me. But this poor woman will most likely never want to see the inside of a hospital again.

CJefferson 7mo ago
Part of the problem is the courts. There are many laws now about protecting babies, in this case of they'd done nothing and mother and baby both died, they could be arrested for that.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  Medical consent is a house that I consider holy but I draw the line at 'societal good'. This woman was at worst a risk to herself and the degree of violation here (besides the insults!) is revolting at so many levels. They had zero respect or consideration for her, their paper reality appears to have been more important to them than the flesh and blood human that trusted them enough to put herself in their power. And then they proceeded to grossly violate that trust. This is 'Terry Schiavo' in reverse, another case that had me wondering why people don't have respect for other people and allow them some dignity. There the courts were required to allow the hospital to stop a treatment they knew would never result in a patient recovering or even improving, and yet the parents tried to use the courts to force the hospital to continue to keep her alive against the wishes of the husband and the hospital. And that took 15 years...
- gus_massa 7mo ago
  > they could be arrested for that Is this real? Here in Argentina someone had a esophageal endoscopy a few years ago. The hospital used a high pressure air tank to insert air in the esophagus instead of a low pressure one. Her esophagus broke and she died for internal bleeding. She [the victim] was very well connected, an air TV journalist and a member of the council of the city of Buenos Aires (~3MM habitats, capital city). IIRC the only penalty was a 3 years sentence in parole the full time.

CJefferson 7mo ago

Part of the problem is the courts. There are many laws now about protecting babies, in this case of they'd done nothing and mother and baby both died, they could be arrested for that.

jacquesm 7mo ago
Medical consent is a house that I consider holy but I draw the line at 'societal good'. This woman was at worst a risk to herself and the degree of violation here (besides the insults!) is revolting at so many levels. They had zero respect or consideration for her, their paper reality appears to have been more important to them than the flesh and blood human that trusted them enough to put herself in their power. And then they proceeded to grossly violate that trust. This is 'Terry Schiavo' in reverse, another case that had me wondering why people don't have respect for other people and allow them some dignity. There the courts were required to allow the hospital to stop a treatment they knew would never result in a patient recovering or even improving, and yet the parents tried to use the courts to force the hospital to continue to keep her alive against the wishes of the husband and the hospital. And that took 15 years...
gus_massa 7mo ago
> they could be arrested for that Is this real? Here in Argentina someone had a esophageal endoscopy a few years ago. The hospital used a high pressure air tank to insert air in the esophagus instead of a low pressure one. Her esophagus broke and she died for internal bleeding. She [the victim] was very well connected, an air TV journalist and a member of the council of the city of Buenos Aires (~3MM habitats, capital city). IIRC the only penalty was a 3 years sentence in parole the full time.