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Linux has been able to serve most non-gaming use cases for over a decade now (source: I've been running the OS longer than that). The one thing it used to not

Linux has been able to serve most non-gaming use cases for over a decade now (source: I've been running the OS longer than that). The one thing it used to not be able to do was play games ... and now it does that.

Arainach 7mo ago
For non technical users it simply isn't true. The happy path has improved a lot. When Linux is working it's reasonably usable. But once something breaks it breaks HARD and recovery is still miserable. For reference I've been using Linux since Red Hat 5.2 circa 2000. I cut my teeth debugging problems without internet access. I ran an LTSP lab at my high school. I remember the hell that was XF86Config (I was there, Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago). ....and like the previous commenter I run Windows on my personal machines because I want to spend my free time using them, not debugging them.
- noisy_boy 7mo ago
  I don't get this. People would put up with absolute nonsense on Windows. But when it comes to Linux, they want to experiment, mess around with the configs, copy/paste random commands from internet and basically turn into l33t haxers and then stuff breaks, its Linux's fault. Like how? Install Fedora, don't add any extra repos, don't install anything not in the Software Center and let us see how many times your system breaks. I have been using Linux since 2000s as well. I do remember the rpm hell, dealing with x config issues etc. It is NOT the same experience now a days. I don't have the time or inclination to mess around so I use Fedora + KDE and that basically stays out of my way. I don't rice my desktop or do any hacking around beyond basic automation and I have had zero instances of the system just breaking.
  - Arainach 7mo ago
    Examples from the last 3 years: * I wanted to update a Raspberry Pi from Ubuntu LTS 22 to LTS 24. Turns out this is basically impossible. Ubuntu themselves tell you not to do it and their recommended solution is to wipe the system and try again. I ignored them and tried to do it anyway and my Pi ended up refusing to boot. Great. * I needed to update a Raspberry Pi to change the list of WiFi networks it knew about. Except apparently there are two different networking stacks for Linux with different config files and I edited the wrong one. * I built a new TrueNAS server. Turns out that you absolutely cannot configure the networking from the GUI. There's a section there, sure, but every time it refuses to save the information until you "test the changes" and that fails to reconnect every single time. You have to locally plug a monitor into the machine, boot it, and log in with a keyboard to get to the config there. * Not strictly a bug, but I installed Debian in WSL and it doesn't include `man` by default. So I get a command line and no help for it. Brilliant.
    - Arainach 7mo ago
      Oh, and from a few days ago: * I want to install jj * Its docs say to use cargo-binstall * How do I get that? With cargo, so sudo apt install cargo * `cargo binstall --strategies crate-meta-data jj-cli` -> `error: no such command: `binstall`` * `cargo install binstall` -> `error: cannot install package `cargo-binstall 1.17.7`, it requires rustc 1.79.0 or newer, while the currently active rustc version is 1.75.0` * `sudo apt install rust` -> E: Unable to locate package rust * `sudo apt install rustc` -> `rustc is already the newest version (1.75.0+dfsg0ubuntu1~bpo0-0ubuntu0.22.04).` Apparently the guidance is to manage your rust versions with a tool other than apt that you install with `curl ... | sh` because no one ever learns anything about security .....yep, just as user friendly as I remember.
      - Georgelemental 7mo ago
        This would not be any easier on Windows?
        pyreko 7mo ago
        Yeah like... on Windows that's the exact same steps you would need to take if you insisted on using binstall? You might have slightly different steps for installing rustup for Windows (e.g. you need to install Visual Studio). The other path I can see (looking at https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#windows https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#windows) is that you could maybe instead use winget directly. Though honestly IMO this is more of a failure on the jj devs to not provide something that can be installed straight using apt, I guess (looking at https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#linux https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#linux). For Arch for example you just install it from the official repos.
        M95D 7mo ago
        The way Windows programs used to install was you insert a CD or download an .exe, doubleclick it, and then repeatedly press "Next" until "Finished".
      - noisy_boy 7mo ago
- macNchz 7mo ago
  I dunno, I thought about this before switching to Linux, when I gave my wife a Linux box I had sitting around in a pinch during the pandemic laptop shortage—a lot of people these days just need a browser, and there’s not really much to go wrong with that. If something does go wrong you can just nuke the whole thing and start over pretty easily. I’ve certainly run into some odd situations on my desktop Linux machine over the past 6 years since I started using it full time, but I think most of them were related to the nature of how I use the machine more than inherent instability. I think I’ve spent many more hours of my life unwinding piles of malware and bloat from non-technical folks’ Windows machines than debugging this one.
  - californical 7mo ago
    My parents used Linux as their home computer for three years, regularly updating it and doing basic document writing with open office, as well as all of their banking etc They don’t know what Linux is, and know nothing about tech, they just know that we had a 30 minute lesson on “here’s Firefox, this icon means you need to install updates, here’s how you print”. Oh and this was Linux Mint back in ~2016 Things have only gotten easier since then
    - nout 7mo ago
      I'm now also comfortable to have my family members use Linux on day to day basis. To the point where I use linux to revive 10 year old Macbooks, since the Apple hardware is just solid. I don't dual boot, I just fully flash with Linux. When something breaks, Fixing Linux means running some commands that LLM suggests. Fixing Windows means downloading some shady .exe that may or may not fix the problem and it may or may not backdoor your machine. Fixing MacOS means paying $5 for some app that maybe does the thing.
- hunterpayne 7mo ago
  The only app non technical users use anymore is a web browser. And since Linux has the same web browsers, non techies don't care. Also, it isn't spying on them or putting ads on their desktop, or breaking the mic randomly like Windows does. Big differences to most people.
  - Arainach 7mo ago
    > And since Linux has the same web browsers, non techies don't care. ....which is why Chromebooks took over the consumer market. Oh, wait.
  - aworks 7mo ago
    I'm halfway between a technical and non-technical user. And half my time is spent in Chrome. But my other half time is in Excel, Dropbox, and Everything. Do those run on Linux? Maybe there are equivalents but I don't have the time to investigate. Access crashes too frequently these days but I couldn't find a GUI equivalent for PostgreSQL. Spying/ads/breaking the misc aren't in my top 10 Windows issues.

Arainach 7mo ago

For non technical users it simply isn't true. The happy path has improved a lot. When Linux is working it's reasonably usable. But once something breaks it breaks HARD and recovery is still miserable. For reference I've been using Linux since Red Hat 5.2 circa 2000. I cut my teeth debugging problems without internet access. I ran an LTSP lab at my high school. I remember the hell that was XF86Config (I was there, Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago). ....and like the previous commenter I run Windows on my personal machines because I want to spend my free time using them, not debugging them.

noisy_boy 7mo ago
I don't get this. People would put up with absolute nonsense on Windows. But when it comes to Linux, they want to experiment, mess around with the configs, copy/paste random commands from internet and basically turn into l33t haxers and then stuff breaks, its Linux's fault. Like how? Install Fedora, don't add any extra repos, don't install anything not in the Software Center and let us see how many times your system breaks. I have been using Linux since 2000s as well. I do remember the rpm hell, dealing with x config issues etc. It is NOT the same experience now a days. I don't have the time or inclination to mess around so I use Fedora + KDE and that basically stays out of my way. I don't rice my desktop or do any hacking around beyond basic automation and I have had zero instances of the system just breaking.
- Arainach 7mo ago
  Examples from the last 3 years: * I wanted to update a Raspberry Pi from Ubuntu LTS 22 to LTS 24. Turns out this is basically impossible. Ubuntu themselves tell you not to do it and their recommended solution is to wipe the system and try again. I ignored them and tried to do it anyway and my Pi ended up refusing to boot. Great. * I needed to update a Raspberry Pi to change the list of WiFi networks it knew about. Except apparently there are two different networking stacks for Linux with different config files and I edited the wrong one. * I built a new TrueNAS server. Turns out that you absolutely cannot configure the networking from the GUI. There's a section there, sure, but every time it refuses to save the information until you "test the changes" and that fails to reconnect every single time. You have to locally plug a monitor into the machine, boot it, and log in with a keyboard to get to the config there. * Not strictly a bug, but I installed Debian in WSL and it doesn't include `man` by default. So I get a command line and no help for it. Brilliant.
  - Arainach 7mo ago
    Oh, and from a few days ago: * I want to install jj * Its docs say to use cargo-binstall * How do I get that? With cargo, so sudo apt install cargo * `cargo binstall --strategies crate-meta-data jj-cli` -> `error: no such command: `binstall`` * `cargo install binstall` -> `error: cannot install package `cargo-binstall 1.17.7`, it requires rustc 1.79.0 or newer, while the currently active rustc version is 1.75.0` * `sudo apt install rust` -> E: Unable to locate package rust * `sudo apt install rustc` -> `rustc is already the newest version (1.75.0+dfsg0ubuntu1~bpo0-0ubuntu0.22.04).` Apparently the guidance is to manage your rust versions with a tool other than apt that you install with `curl ... | sh` because no one ever learns anything about security .....yep, just as user friendly as I remember.
    - Georgelemental 7mo ago
      This would not be any easier on Windows?
      - pyreko 7mo ago
        Yeah like... on Windows that's the exact same steps you would need to take if you insisted on using binstall? You might have slightly different steps for installing rustup for Windows (e.g. you need to install Visual Studio). The other path I can see (looking at https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#windows https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#windows) is that you could maybe instead use winget directly. Though honestly IMO this is more of a failure on the jj devs to not provide something that can be installed straight using apt, I guess (looking at https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#linux https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/#linux). For Arch for example you just install it from the official repos.
      - M95D 7mo ago
        The way Windows programs used to install was you insert a CD or download an .exe, doubleclick it, and then repeatedly press "Next" until "Finished".
    - noisy_boy 7mo ago
macNchz 7mo ago
I dunno, I thought about this before switching to Linux, when I gave my wife a Linux box I had sitting around in a pinch during the pandemic laptop shortage—a lot of people these days just need a browser, and there’s not really much to go wrong with that. If something does go wrong you can just nuke the whole thing and start over pretty easily. I’ve certainly run into some odd situations on my desktop Linux machine over the past 6 years since I started using it full time, but I think most of them were related to the nature of how I use the machine more than inherent instability. I think I’ve spent many more hours of my life unwinding piles of malware and bloat from non-technical folks’ Windows machines than debugging this one.
- californical 7mo ago
  My parents used Linux as their home computer for three years, regularly updating it and doing basic document writing with open office, as well as all of their banking etc They don’t know what Linux is, and know nothing about tech, they just know that we had a 30 minute lesson on “here’s Firefox, this icon means you need to install updates, here’s how you print”. Oh and this was Linux Mint back in ~2016 Things have only gotten easier since then
  - nout 7mo ago
    I'm now also comfortable to have my family members use Linux on day to day basis. To the point where I use linux to revive 10 year old Macbooks, since the Apple hardware is just solid. I don't dual boot, I just fully flash with Linux. When something breaks, Fixing Linux means running some commands that LLM suggests. Fixing Windows means downloading some shady .exe that may or may not fix the problem and it may or may not backdoor your machine. Fixing MacOS means paying $5 for some app that maybe does the thing.
hunterpayne 7mo ago
The only app non technical users use anymore is a web browser. And since Linux has the same web browsers, non techies don't care. Also, it isn't spying on them or putting ads on their desktop, or breaking the mic randomly like Windows does. Big differences to most people.
- Arainach 7mo ago
  > And since Linux has the same web browsers, non techies don't care. ....which is why Chromebooks took over the consumer market. Oh, wait.
- aworks 7mo ago
  I'm halfway between a technical and non-technical user. And half my time is spent in Chrome. But my other half time is in Excel, Dropbox, and Everything. Do those run on Linux? Maybe there are equivalents but I don't have the time to investigate. Access crashes too frequently these days but I couldn't find a GUI equivalent for PostgreSQL. Spying/ads/breaking the misc aren't in my top 10 Windows issues.