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I tend to avoid placing the blame on individuals (parents in this case) when the problem being described is so widespread. People act as rationally as they can,
by kimbernator 7mo ago
I tend to avoid placing the blame on individuals (parents in this case) when the problem being described is so widespread. People act as rationally as they can, so if it's that common, it's a systemic failure. Scolding the masses is a fool's errand.
- DANmode 7mo ago> People act as rationally as they can We’re talking about underdeveloped minds in the face of excruciating social and physiological pressure. I’m pretty sure the systemic failure is, in part, that parents are, en masse, abdicating their responsibilities of guiding their children through the minefield of modern technology, from iPad kids on up. The reasons why vary - and include being addicted themselves. I’d love to hear any anecdotal evidence to the contrary - not just a dismissal, or being called a fool.
- kelseyfrog 7mo agoThe society that supports phoneless children no longer exists. It stopped sometime in the 2010s. Taking away phones doesn't bring that infrastructure back, it culminates in something new and worse. One example is the tension between childrens' independence and roaming and the now lack of payphones. Taking away a cell phone doesn't bring back payphones. It either reduces a child's independence or puts them in more dangerous situations. What it doesn't do is return them back to a time when a couple of quarters could call mom or dad.
- DANmode 7mo agoWho said take phones away? No, teach them some motherfucking respect, so they know, instinctually, that when someone’s talking to them for 30-60 minutes they should pocket or bag it.
- kelseyfrog 7mo agoSorry, but childrens' lack of respect was lamented in Antiquity. I don't see that changing in the next 5 years if it hasn't changed in the last 2000.
- DANmode 7mo agoAs a known exception, not as a rule. Disrespect toward supposed authority figures as a default is a very modern concept.
- kelseyfrog 7mo agoWant to back that up? Because every source I have for the last 2000 years complains it's a new phenomenon.
- DANmode 7mo agoCould you clarify your position? Just reads like you’re agreeing with me, now.
- kelseyfrog 7mo agoNo, I disagree.
- DANmode 7mo agoOkay, finally unraveled your comment: you’re saying the complaint is that in that era it was also thought of as a new phenomenon. That makes some sense - it’s been a declining slope, with a huge drop-off point. But was there also evidence of less-competent people coming out of the end of the machine that’s supposed to produce people to keep the civilization functional? Probably happened at one time or another - but it was probably also considered a problem…… My original “as a default” verbiage is doing a lot of heavy lifting, but is there for a reason.
- 7mo ago
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- hollerith 7mo agoTeaching them respect sounds a lot harder than just confiscating their phones.
- DANmode 7mo agoNo doubt, that’s why the pendulum has swung as far as it, in the direction it has! That doesn’t make it the right call, necessarily legal in every jurisdiction, or even moral (in certain edge cases). Calling back to my earlier comment: handing your kid an iPad for all of their free time is easy, too!
- hollerith 7mo agoYou're supposing that there existed a virtuous past in which parents taught their children respect and that if we returned to that past, there would be no need to ban smartphones in the classroom, and you believe that even though this virtuous past had no smartphones.
- DANmode 7mo agoI’m supposing that there are, have been, and will be, cultures that exhibit (and socially enforce) basic respect, yes. Even in the presence of technology.