12 ms·

> In crafting its policy, Estacada incorporated feedback from parents. That led to some key decisions around the cell phone ban. Rather than use pouches or lock

by dizzy9 7mo ago

> In crafting its policy, Estacada incorporated feedback from parents. That led to some key decisions around the cell phone ban. Rather than use pouches or lockers, students are allowed to keep their phones safely stored in their backpacks. That was for two reasons — it allows students to contact loved ones during emergencies, and many parents use phone trackers to keep tabs on their kids. I'm glad to hear this. They're currently trying to shill the magnetically sealed pouches in the UK, but the flaws are obvious: massive bottleneck at the pouch station would delay entry and exit from the building, phones would be unavailable during emergencies or to record incidents of crime or staff malpractice, and financial burden on schools. Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule.

starkparker 7mo ago
Don't get it twisted, almost every Portland-area school has gone full in on the stupid fucking Yondr pouches, and yeah it fucked up entry/exit: https://katu.com/news/local/portland-students-adapt-to-new-cellphone-policy-with-mixed-reactions-from-parents https://katu.com/news/local/portland-students-adapt-to-new-c... They also begged parents to help pay for them: https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/portland-schools-ask-parents-for-contributions-for-phone-pouches https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/portland-schools-ask-... A friend's kid needs an exemption from their doctor because their phone is also their glucose monitor and diagnostic tracker, and the exception only allows them to unlock the pouch under supervision when necessary.
- selectively 7mo ago
  What a vulgar situation. Policy made from a moral panic and - look at that - it is negatively impacting actual people who exist.
  - bpt3 7mo ago
    It's not a moral panic. There are loads of studies indicating that disconnected classrooms produce better outcomes for students. I'm not sure what argument there is for allowing all students unfettered access to their phones, but feel free to present one.
    - selectively 7mo ago
      There are no reputable studies showing both correlation and causation there.
      - bpt3 7mo ago
        I'd link to some of the many studies published by reputable sources, but I suspect you'll brush them aside with your caveats
        selectively 7mo ago
        That 'caveat' is the actual science. So it's a pretty big deal.
        bpt3 7mo ago
        More meaningless words that can be defined as needed by you to support your rather bizarre agenda. Numerous peer reviewed articles published in reputable journals have reported that there are advantages to banning cell phones in the classroom, yet you as the sole arbiter of "actual science" declare otherwise.
        bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        We don't actually need "actual science" to conclude that phones in classrooms are likely causing problems. We can observe them in action causing problems and take actions even if the peer reviewed double blind study hasn't been done
        selectively 6mo ago
        Actually, we do. That's kind of the entire point of science.
        bluefirebrand 6mo ago
        We have to make the best decisions we can with the information we have The point of science is to provide better information for us to make decisions with, not to prevent us from making decisions at all until it's done If we waited for science to settle and provide the best information possible, we would never get anything done
jon-wood 7mo ago
The sealed pouches are a bit of theatre. My son's school has a policy that pupil's can take their phones to school but if one is seen or heard on the school grounds it'll be confiscated and the owner's parents called to come pick it up on their behalf. From what I hear they're not shy about applying that policy either.
- alexfoo 7mo ago
  Offsetting part of the punishment to the parents (having to get them to come in to the school to collect the phone) is going to help get the policy reinforced from home in most cases. My kid’s school had a similar policy. I didn't mind having to go out of my way to collect the phone and didn’t pass any of that on to my kid, they were annoyed enough about having it confiscated that it only took a few times before they modified their behaviour accordingly.
  - jon-wood 6mo ago
    Heh, my son goes to school in the next town over and I don't drive, which means it's either a 90 minute round trip by bus or £40 of taxi fares. I've made it abundantly clear to him that if I have to go into the school to get his phone back he's picking up the tab for my taxis.
rootusrootus 7mo ago
This is how it works in my kids' school. Not Estacada, but not that far away, and not in Portland. No pouches or lockers, just an understanding that phones which are seen will be confiscated. First time they get sent to the office and returned as the student leaves school. Second time they have to be picked up by a parent. You'd think it would be a huge deal with rebellious teens, but my daughter says it has basically been a non-issue.
fennecfoxy 7mo ago
>Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. And what if they don't? En masse?
- rtkwe 7mo ago
  At first a lot of parents get inconvenienced coming to get confiscated phones and if that doesn't inspire them to discipline their kid at home the school can move to the more draconian pouch systems.
Aurornis 7mo ago
> Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule That was the general policy before these bans. It was not working.
kimbernator 7mo ago
>Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. I'm honestly not educated on the topic right now since I haven't been in school for 15 years and have some time left before my daughter starts, but is this rule really not in place in most schools? How could any school justify not having this rule at the very least, regardless of how well-enforced it is? I always assumed it was a lack of enforcement due to understaffing that was the problem
- DANmode 7mo ago
  It’s a lack of enforcement due to unruly, unparented children, in most regions’ school districts.
  - kimbernator 7mo ago
    I tend to avoid placing the blame on individuals (parents in this case) when the problem being described is so widespread. People act as rationally as they can, so if it's that common, it's a systemic failure. Scolding the masses is a fool's errand.
    - DANmode 7mo ago
      > People act as rationally as they can We’re talking about underdeveloped minds in the face of excruciating social and physiological pressure. I’m pretty sure the systemic failure is, in part, that parents are, en masse, abdicating their responsibilities of guiding their children through the minefield of modern technology, from iPad kids on up. The reasons why vary - and include being addicted themselves. I’d love to hear any anecdotal evidence to the contrary - not just a dismissal, or being called a fool.
      - kelseyfrog 7mo ago
        The society that supports phoneless children no longer exists. It stopped sometime in the 2010s. Taking away phones doesn't bring that infrastructure back, it culminates in something new and worse. One example is the tension between childrens' independence and roaming and the now lack of payphones. Taking away a cell phone doesn't bring back payphones. It either reduces a child's independence or puts them in more dangerous situations. What it doesn't do is return them back to a time when a couple of quarters could call mom or dad.
eloisant 7mo ago
> it allows students to contact loved ones during emergencies, and many parents use phone trackers to keep tabs on their kids That's such bullshit. - There is no emergency that require students to contact anyone. Communication can go through the school - Parents have no business tracking their kids when they're at school
- TimorousBestie 7mo ago
  Oof, the “my child is my property” parents are not gonna like this.
- heavygrit 7mo ago
  > Parents have no business tracking their kids when they're at school The tracker sends a notification when they're not at school, that's the point. Plus, I can lock down social media apps only during school hours. Blanket statements like this are plain ignorant. Also, I'm glad Utah finally passed a similar ban. Phones in use in class are a tremendous distraction 99% of the time.
  - jwcooper 7mo ago
    This is ridiculous. The school will notify you if the student is not at school, or the teachers will eventually (or their grades/missing assignments). Also you don't need to track your kids to enable school time mode, if you want to lock down their phone during school. What are you going to do when they go to college? Track them? Monitor them? Make sure they go to classes? At some point, you just have to trust your kids to do the right thing. It's a part of them learning how to grow up and be independent. It's better to make mistakes the younger you are so you can learn from them when there is less on the line.
    - heavygrit 7mo ago
      This is even more ridiculous, how about that?? My particular school will send a message at 5pm daily with any attendance issues, but I can be notified instantly through the app. Why would I ever choose to be less informed? Also, I appreciate your points about college, but have you noticed a large number of students disproportionately boys are disenchanted with the whole education system at large and opting out of college. I'm clinging on to a hope that mine will see the value, but there are lots of different developmental speeds and some students need more guidance than others. You do realize some high school students just become burnouts, right? Your one size fits all, hands off and trust mentality is naïve and if you happen to be a parent, hopefully you'll be able to avoid the situation of parenting a student in crisis. Cell phones are a major problem in schools and I'm glad to see efforts being made to address it
briffle 7mo ago
Kids are smart. My school district has sealed pouches.. Its amazing how many kids throw an old phone in there, and put their actual one away hidden on silent. Which I guess gets looked the other way, since they aren't using it in class.
- rtkwe 7mo ago
  It's definitely a mix of the actual phone pouches and the bans giving teachers actual authority and permission to confiscate phones when they're out and disruptive. IMO there's likely a shift that happens with pouches where there are enough kids following the rules and only having one phone in the pouch that it tips the social balance over. That would be harder with just teacher enforced bans I think. It's definitely a hard problem over all balancing their completely disruptive nature if there's no bounds to the issues around safety and parental worry from not being able to contact their kid all the time which phones have made the norm.
tiberone 7mo ago
> Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. Anybody who has spent even a day teaching knows how wildly inaccurate this statement is
- netruk44 6mo ago
  Anybody who has spent a day in school as a student knows that students can’t be trusted to follow the rules.
  - DiskoHexyl 6mo ago
    People in general can't be trusted to follow the rules. That's why we have the inforcement. Students are just little people
eudamoniac 6mo ago
I don't understand. We had a "no phones in class" rule when I was in school over a decade ago. It was the obvious default. How did it go away, and how is this new policy different from the obvious? Are they saying that until now their policy was that phones are openly allowed in class? Why??

by dizzy9 7mo ago

starkparker 7mo ago

Don't get it twisted, almost every Portland-area school has gone full in on the stupid fucking Yondr pouches, and yeah it fucked up entry/exit: https://katu.com/news/local/portland-students-adapt-to-new-cellphone-policy-with-mixed-reactions-from-parents https://katu.com/news/local/portland-students-adapt-to-new-c... They also begged parents to help pay for them: https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/portland-schools-ask-parents-for-contributions-for-phone-pouches https://www.govtech.com/education/k-12/portland-schools-ask-... A friend's kid needs an exemption from their doctor because their phone is also their glucose monitor and diagnostic tracker, and the exception only allows them to unlock the pouch under supervision when necessary.

selectively 7mo ago
What a vulgar situation. Policy made from a moral panic and - look at that - it is negatively impacting actual people who exist.
- bpt3 7mo ago
  It's not a moral panic. There are loads of studies indicating that disconnected classrooms produce better outcomes for students. I'm not sure what argument there is for allowing all students unfettered access to their phones, but feel free to present one.
  - selectively 7mo ago
    There are no reputable studies showing both correlation and causation there.
    - bpt3 7mo ago
      I'd link to some of the many studies published by reputable sources, but I suspect you'll brush them aside with your caveats
      - selectively 7mo ago
        That 'caveat' is the actual science. So it's a pretty big deal.
        bpt3 7mo ago
        More meaningless words that can be defined as needed by you to support your rather bizarre agenda. Numerous peer reviewed articles published in reputable journals have reported that there are advantages to banning cell phones in the classroom, yet you as the sole arbiter of "actual science" declare otherwise.
        bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        We don't actually need "actual science" to conclude that phones in classrooms are likely causing problems. We can observe them in action causing problems and take actions even if the peer reviewed double blind study hasn't been done
        selectively 6mo ago
        Actually, we do. That's kind of the entire point of science.
        bluefirebrand 6mo ago
        We have to make the best decisions we can with the information we have The point of science is to provide better information for us to make decisions with, not to prevent us from making decisions at all until it's done If we waited for science to settle and provide the best information possible, we would never get anything done

jon-wood 7mo ago

The sealed pouches are a bit of theatre. My son's school has a policy that pupil's can take their phones to school but if one is seen or heard on the school grounds it'll be confiscated and the owner's parents called to come pick it up on their behalf. From what I hear they're not shy about applying that policy either.

alexfoo 7mo ago
Offsetting part of the punishment to the parents (having to get them to come in to the school to collect the phone) is going to help get the policy reinforced from home in most cases. My kid’s school had a similar policy. I didn't mind having to go out of my way to collect the phone and didn’t pass any of that on to my kid, they were annoyed enough about having it confiscated that it only took a few times before they modified their behaviour accordingly.
- jon-wood 6mo ago
  Heh, my son goes to school in the next town over and I don't drive, which means it's either a 90 minute round trip by bus or £40 of taxi fares. I've made it abundantly clear to him that if I have to go into the school to get his phone back he's picking up the tab for my taxis.

rootusrootus 7mo ago

This is how it works in my kids' school. Not Estacada, but not that far away, and not in Portland. No pouches or lockers, just an understanding that phones which are seen will be confiscated. First time they get sent to the office and returned as the student leaves school. Second time they have to be picked up by a parent. You'd think it would be a huge deal with rebellious teens, but my daughter says it has basically been a non-issue.

fennecfoxy 7mo ago

>Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. And what if they don't? En masse?

rtkwe 7mo ago
At first a lot of parents get inconvenienced coming to get confiscated phones and if that doesn't inspire them to discipline their kid at home the school can move to the more draconian pouch systems.

Aurornis 7mo ago

> Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule That was the general policy before these bans. It was not working.

kimbernator 7mo ago

>Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. I'm honestly not educated on the topic right now since I haven't been in school for 15 years and have some time left before my daughter starts, but is this rule really not in place in most schools? How could any school justify not having this rule at the very least, regardless of how well-enforced it is? I always assumed it was a lack of enforcement due to understaffing that was the problem

DANmode 7mo ago
It’s a lack of enforcement due to unruly, unparented children, in most regions’ school districts.
- kimbernator 7mo ago
  I tend to avoid placing the blame on individuals (parents in this case) when the problem being described is so widespread. People act as rationally as they can, so if it's that common, it's a systemic failure. Scolding the masses is a fool's errand.
  - DANmode 7mo ago
    > People act as rationally as they can We’re talking about underdeveloped minds in the face of excruciating social and physiological pressure. I’m pretty sure the systemic failure is, in part, that parents are, en masse, abdicating their responsibilities of guiding their children through the minefield of modern technology, from iPad kids on up. The reasons why vary - and include being addicted themselves. I’d love to hear any anecdotal evidence to the contrary - not just a dismissal, or being called a fool.
    - kelseyfrog 7mo ago
      The society that supports phoneless children no longer exists. It stopped sometime in the 2010s. Taking away phones doesn't bring that infrastructure back, it culminates in something new and worse. One example is the tension between childrens' independence and roaming and the now lack of payphones. Taking away a cell phone doesn't bring back payphones. It either reduces a child's independence or puts them in more dangerous situations. What it doesn't do is return them back to a time when a couple of quarters could call mom or dad.

eloisant 7mo ago

> it allows students to contact loved ones during emergencies, and many parents use phone trackers to keep tabs on their kids That's such bullshit. - There is no emergency that require students to contact anyone. Communication can go through the school - Parents have no business tracking their kids when they're at school

TimorousBestie 7mo ago
Oof, the “my child is my property” parents are not gonna like this.
heavygrit 7mo ago
> Parents have no business tracking their kids when they're at school The tracker sends a notification when they're not at school, that's the point. Plus, I can lock down social media apps only during school hours. Blanket statements like this are plain ignorant. Also, I'm glad Utah finally passed a similar ban. Phones in use in class are a tremendous distraction 99% of the time.
- jwcooper 7mo ago
  This is ridiculous. The school will notify you if the student is not at school, or the teachers will eventually (or their grades/missing assignments). Also you don't need to track your kids to enable school time mode, if you want to lock down their phone during school. What are you going to do when they go to college? Track them? Monitor them? Make sure they go to classes? At some point, you just have to trust your kids to do the right thing. It's a part of them learning how to grow up and be independent. It's better to make mistakes the younger you are so you can learn from them when there is less on the line.
  - heavygrit 7mo ago
    This is even more ridiculous, how about that?? My particular school will send a message at 5pm daily with any attendance issues, but I can be notified instantly through the app. Why would I ever choose to be less informed? Also, I appreciate your points about college, but have you noticed a large number of students disproportionately boys are disenchanted with the whole education system at large and opting out of college. I'm clinging on to a hope that mine will see the value, but there are lots of different developmental speeds and some students need more guidance than others. You do realize some high school students just become burnouts, right? Your one size fits all, hands off and trust mentality is naïve and if you happen to be a parent, hopefully you'll be able to avoid the situation of parenting a student in crisis. Cell phones are a major problem in schools and I'm glad to see efforts being made to address it

briffle 7mo ago

Kids are smart. My school district has sealed pouches.. Its amazing how many kids throw an old phone in there, and put their actual one away hidden on silent. Which I guess gets looked the other way, since they aren't using it in class.

rtkwe 7mo ago
It's definitely a mix of the actual phone pouches and the bans giving teachers actual authority and permission to confiscate phones when they're out and disruptive. IMO there's likely a shift that happens with pouches where there are enough kids following the rules and only having one phone in the pouch that it tips the social balance over. That would be harder with just teacher enforced bans I think. It's definitely a hard problem over all balancing their completely disruptive nature if there's no bounds to the issues around safety and parental worry from not being able to contact their kid all the time which phones have made the norm.

tiberone 7mo ago

> Students can be trusted to obey a simple "no phones in class" rule. Anybody who has spent even a day teaching knows how wildly inaccurate this statement is

netruk44 6mo ago
Anybody who has spent a day in school as a student knows that students can’t be trusted to follow the rules.
- DiskoHexyl 6mo ago
  People in general can't be trusted to follow the rules. That's why we have the inforcement. Students are just little people

eudamoniac 6mo ago

I don't understand. We had a "no phones in class" rule when I was in school over a decade ago. It was the obvious default. How did it go away, and how is this new policy different from the obvious? Are they saying that until now their policy was that phones are openly allowed in class? Why??