8 ms·

Before kids it was easy to judge bad parents. Then one day with child I found myself due to circumstances in a store way past my child’s bedtime. She was scream

Before kids it was easy to judge bad parents. Then one day with child I found myself due to circumstances in a store way past my child’s bedtime. She was screaming and crying, because it was way past her bedtime. Then I realized… I was now “the bad parent” I had so easily judged. Then it was easy to judge parents with children younger than mine. Until I learned that not all children have the same issues in the same order. Then I learned it’s easier not to judge at all.

bryanrasmussen 7mo ago
Louis C.K had a routine about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr1aAYOhFsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr1aAYOhFsQ
- drfloyd51 7mo ago
  I can relate. Thank you.
rootusrootus 7mo ago
Yes, when you have a toddler undergoing a public meltdown, it is easy to see who around you is an experienced parent, and who is not. Just by the look on their faces. > Then I learned it’s easier not to judge at all. A skill we should all cultivate, IMO. Life is happier when you do not waste it constantly judging.
- bcrosby95 7mo ago
  I smile a bit and give a chuckle when a toddler is giving a parent a hard time. It reminds me of simpler times. The problems and consequences are so much smaller than teenage problems.
phatfish 7mo ago
Badly behaved kids I am more understanding of now (at least the younger ones). But there are defintely easy ways out of problems some parents take that are not good for children.
- com2kid 7mo ago
  Yeah, with a kid I still judge. I'd rather see kids running around and playing and being kids in public than on a tablet. Even grocery shopping I see toddlers on tablets sitting in the cart. My son has been actively involved with meal planning since he as a a year and a half old. "What type of bread today? What type of fruit in your yogurt tomorrow?" I won't judge kid's behavior, so long as they are acting like kids. Sometimes that means they act out, that is normal. But, damnit, let them live in the real world and not just try to distract them with shiny things all the time. I remember going to restaurants in the 90s and early 2000s and kids would be running around playing with each other between tables. That is kids being kids, and it is perfectly acceptable (heck desirable!)
  - mothballed 7mo ago
    I've been detained by police under suspicion of "kidnapping" for taking my kid to the park (my kid is a different "race" as me so it was "suspicious"). On another occasion my kid was interrogated because they were walking home from school on our own property, and someone wondered "why they were alone." On the other hand, no one has ever called the police on me for handing the kid a tablet and melting their brain inside. When I was a kid either of those people would be practically thrown in a loony bin for saying anything, let alone taken serious by the authorities. Now the CPS investigates almost every accusation and is legally barred from even telling you who made it, so these anonymous shitstains can exercise their cowardice behind a curtain as much as they like with no risk to themselves but every risk to you. It's difficult to let them live in the real world not because some evil guy with a white van is waiting to offer "free candy" but that the evil person in a white van is actually the Karen who sees a kid on the street or the park as an inconvenience for her or an unacceptable risk and they can be the coward they are and make an anonymous complaint and cause weeks of harassments by CPS with the cell phone they have next to them at the ready wherever they might see a child.
    - com2kid 7mo ago
      > I've been detained by police under suspicion of "kidnapping" for taking my kid to the park (my kid is a different "race" as me so it was "suspicious"). On another occasion my kid was interrogated because they were walking home from school on our own property, and someone wondered "why they were alone." And this is why I pay an arm and a leg to live in Seattle. Kids here are running around outside playing soccer in the streets with parents watching guard for cars at the ends of the block. Mixed race is not even noteworthy here. Kids walk to/from school (up to a mile) all the time. Huge groups of kids walk together every day.
Balgair 7mo ago
Before kids, you take a look around a diner or a store or a playground and you see little ones happily eating some chips or browsing the foodstuffs or playing on a slide. You think that this is what kids are like. They sit there, they walk a little, they giggle on the playground, they look cute as all get out, etc. Then you have kids and you know. You know. Those kids sitting there in the booth sipping on their milk quietly while mom and dad happily eat their lunch? Those are the top 5% most calm kids out there. The other 95% of kids are with their adults screaming and throwing fits and covered in who knows what. Life lied to you. It did it directly to your face, unashamed. The bias is real.
- pimlottc 7mo ago
  That's not the impression I hear from my many intentionally childless friends. They take the negative behavior - the screaming, tantrums, chaos - as the norm. It sounds like you always wanted kids. I don't say this to criticize - it's great that those who want to start families do so - but I don't think your experience is universal.
  - Balgair 7mo ago
    Oh then it's even worse! As again, only the more well behaved kids are going out in public.
    - 1718627440 7mo ago
      > only the more well behaved kids are going out in public. How would that work? Do you think they have life-long domiciliary arrest? All children need to go to school or like to occasionally walk or go to a shop.
- Gud 7mo ago
  Uhm, who walks around believing kids are well behaved?
  - drfloyd51 7mo ago
brightball 7mo ago
I was the worlds best parent...before I had kids.
- DonThomasitos 7mo ago
  Thanks for making me laugh - great poetry :D and so true. I can‘t stand people w/o kids complaining about their parents.
socalgal2 7mo ago
I still judge parents, because I compare them to other parents. Good parents = kids not 100% glued to phones/tablets, social around friends and family, not throwing tantrums at 8-16 yrs old. Bad parents = kids always throwing tantrums, kids basically always getting their way because they've learned parents will always give in, parents and kids 100% ignoring each other. One set of friends - I go to visit, I play with their kids - we go out to dinner, we interact with both adults and kids Another set of friends - I go to visit, they sent their kids to their room - we go out to dinner, they give the kids tablets and they're entirely ignored for the whole time.
- Trasmatta 7mo ago
  > Bad parents = kids always throwing tantrums But sometimes there are legit behavioral issues that are extremely challenging, and are not the parent's fault. Sometimes what looks like a "tantrum" on the outside can actually be autistic overwhelm and meltdown, which can happen with even the best parents. Not to mention stuff like Intermittent Explosive Disorder. All this to say...if you see a kid in public throwing a "tantrum", you still shouldn't judge the parents without knowing the full picture.
  - com2kid 7mo ago
    There is a difference between kids using bad behavior to get attention or blackmail parents vs kids who have actual behavioral problems they are working through. The first is an actual problem stemming from bad parenting and as a society we should indeed shame parents who raise spoiled kids who expect everything to be given to them.
    - Trasmatta 7mo ago
      The point is that if you just see a kid on the street throwing a tantrum, you don't know which of those situations you're actually looking at
      - com2kid 7mo ago
sublinear 7mo ago
I'm glad you at least determined the root cause. Plenty of truly bad parents shrug responsibility off by making the "technically correct" claim that all kids throw tantrums, therefore they're not a bad parent. They then proceed to provide an unstable environment to raise their kids and the tantrums don't end until well into adulthood.
dismalaf 7mo ago
Dunno, I didn't judge before having a kid. After having a kid, it's 100x easier than people made it out to be and it's hard not to judge.
- redwood 7mo ago
  Maybe your kid is easier than most.. I would not generalize
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
  - bcrosby95 7mo ago
    Having multiple kids can make things much harder too. A child that is easy alone may not be easy with siblings. Parents flex for children because there's a lot of things we don't care about. Little Timmy wants to go first? That's fine. But now introduce Little Jane. Little Timmy can't always go first. Now he has to contend with Little Jane. Turn taking is the standard here. Doing it at preschool is one thing, but in every day life, at home, from sunrise to sunset, when tired or sick, is another thing. There's also lots of corner cases to navigate. What if Little Jane wants to watch something that scares Little Timmy? What if Little Timmy missed a turn because he had soccer practice? And so on. You also aren't in control of all turns. For example, birthday parties. Or frequency of seeing friends. What is seen as unfair parts of life by an 8 year old can be completely out of your control. You can oftentimes rely on the older one being a little more flexible than the younger one, and that is a life saver. As a parent you can lean on it and reason with them. But there is a scenario where this falls apart: twins. Congratulations, have fun reasoning with two 1.5 year olds who want opposing things. The corner cases from taking turns can get easier as they get older though. I usually offload it to them: you guys figure out whats fair, everyone has to agree, let me know when you figure it out. This can degenerate into the most stubborn winning though, so I still have to monitor the results and stop relying on it if that's what is happening. I dunno, it feels kinda exhausting for being easy.
doright 7mo ago
I will continue to judge my parents for abusing me throughout childhood until doing so no longer contributes to my own healing. There is no single right way to respond to a hyperactive child but there are plenty of permanently life-altering ones.
- throwaw3y 7mo ago
  > until doing so no longer contributes to my own healing Resentment is a poison willingly retained; I hope you find healing some day in letting go of those memories
  - doright 7mo ago
    Thank you for the kind words. It's less blame/resentment (though I admit I'm still working on it) and more that pretending my childhood was just fine and my parents were absolved of everything just because they tried their hardest was exactly what kept me trapped in a vicious cycle for far too long. Some things go beyond "just" bad parenting and into the level of abuse and potentially lifelong physical/mental conditions. Only by admitting to myself that yes, I was not at fault for all my own misfortunes and maybe someone else did share the blame, was I finally able to start healing. One of my goals is to isolate the healthy parts of blame from the all-consuming and unproductive ones, which I'm still working on. For my case (and I speak for nobody else), I don't want to have children until I'm 100% certain I will not make the same mistake as my forbearers and pass down their trauma to my offspring. Some of that decision-making is out of my hands until I've had enough therapy and healing. That's just what abusive parenting does to a person's psyche. And for what it's worth, I can't predict how my perspectives on parenting will change if I become a parent myself, but even in that case I will never stop believing my own parents were abusive. No model of how the world works makes sense to me without that understanding anymore.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

bryanrasmussen 7mo ago

Louis C.K had a routine about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr1aAYOhFsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr1aAYOhFsQ

drfloyd51 7mo ago
I can relate. Thank you.

rootusrootus 7mo ago

Yes, when you have a toddler undergoing a public meltdown, it is easy to see who around you is an experienced parent, and who is not. Just by the look on their faces. > Then I learned it’s easier not to judge at all. A skill we should all cultivate, IMO. Life is happier when you do not waste it constantly judging.

bcrosby95 7mo ago
I smile a bit and give a chuckle when a toddler is giving a parent a hard time. It reminds me of simpler times. The problems and consequences are so much smaller than teenage problems.

phatfish 7mo ago

Badly behaved kids I am more understanding of now (at least the younger ones). But there are defintely easy ways out of problems some parents take that are not good for children.

com2kid 7mo ago
Yeah, with a kid I still judge. I'd rather see kids running around and playing and being kids in public than on a tablet. Even grocery shopping I see toddlers on tablets sitting in the cart. My son has been actively involved with meal planning since he as a a year and a half old. "What type of bread today? What type of fruit in your yogurt tomorrow?" I won't judge kid's behavior, so long as they are acting like kids. Sometimes that means they act out, that is normal. But, damnit, let them live in the real world and not just try to distract them with shiny things all the time. I remember going to restaurants in the 90s and early 2000s and kids would be running around playing with each other between tables. That is kids being kids, and it is perfectly acceptable (heck desirable!)
- mothballed 7mo ago
  I've been detained by police under suspicion of "kidnapping" for taking my kid to the park (my kid is a different "race" as me so it was "suspicious"). On another occasion my kid was interrogated because they were walking home from school on our own property, and someone wondered "why they were alone." On the other hand, no one has ever called the police on me for handing the kid a tablet and melting their brain inside. When I was a kid either of those people would be practically thrown in a loony bin for saying anything, let alone taken serious by the authorities. Now the CPS investigates almost every accusation and is legally barred from even telling you who made it, so these anonymous shitstains can exercise their cowardice behind a curtain as much as they like with no risk to themselves but every risk to you. It's difficult to let them live in the real world not because some evil guy with a white van is waiting to offer "free candy" but that the evil person in a white van is actually the Karen who sees a kid on the street or the park as an inconvenience for her or an unacceptable risk and they can be the coward they are and make an anonymous complaint and cause weeks of harassments by CPS with the cell phone they have next to them at the ready wherever they might see a child.
  - com2kid 7mo ago
    > I've been detained by police under suspicion of "kidnapping" for taking my kid to the park (my kid is a different "race" as me so it was "suspicious"). On another occasion my kid was interrogated because they were walking home from school on our own property, and someone wondered "why they were alone." And this is why I pay an arm and a leg to live in Seattle. Kids here are running around outside playing soccer in the streets with parents watching guard for cars at the ends of the block. Mixed race is not even noteworthy here. Kids walk to/from school (up to a mile) all the time. Huge groups of kids walk together every day.

Balgair 7mo ago

Before kids, you take a look around a diner or a store or a playground and you see little ones happily eating some chips or browsing the foodstuffs or playing on a slide. You think that this is what kids are like. They sit there, they walk a little, they giggle on the playground, they look cute as all get out, etc. Then you have kids and you know. You know. Those kids sitting there in the booth sipping on their milk quietly while mom and dad happily eat their lunch? Those are the top 5% most calm kids out there. The other 95% of kids are with their adults screaming and throwing fits and covered in who knows what. Life lied to you. It did it directly to your face, unashamed. The bias is real.

pimlottc 7mo ago
That's not the impression I hear from my many intentionally childless friends. They take the negative behavior - the screaming, tantrums, chaos - as the norm. It sounds like you always wanted kids. I don't say this to criticize - it's great that those who want to start families do so - but I don't think your experience is universal.
- Balgair 7mo ago
  Oh then it's even worse! As again, only the more well behaved kids are going out in public.
  - 1718627440 7mo ago
    > only the more well behaved kids are going out in public. How would that work? Do you think they have life-long domiciliary arrest? All children need to go to school or like to occasionally walk or go to a shop.
Gud 7mo ago
Uhm, who walks around believing kids are well behaved?
- drfloyd51 7mo ago

brightball 7mo ago

I was the worlds best parent...before I had kids.

DonThomasitos 7mo ago
Thanks for making me laugh - great poetry :D and so true. I can‘t stand people w/o kids complaining about their parents.

socalgal2 7mo ago

I still judge parents, because I compare them to other parents. Good parents = kids not 100% glued to phones/tablets, social around friends and family, not throwing tantrums at 8-16 yrs old. Bad parents = kids always throwing tantrums, kids basically always getting their way because they've learned parents will always give in, parents and kids 100% ignoring each other. One set of friends - I go to visit, I play with their kids - we go out to dinner, we interact with both adults and kids Another set of friends - I go to visit, they sent their kids to their room - we go out to dinner, they give the kids tablets and they're entirely ignored for the whole time.

Trasmatta 7mo ago
> Bad parents = kids always throwing tantrums But sometimes there are legit behavioral issues that are extremely challenging, and are not the parent's fault. Sometimes what looks like a "tantrum" on the outside can actually be autistic overwhelm and meltdown, which can happen with even the best parents. Not to mention stuff like Intermittent Explosive Disorder. All this to say...if you see a kid in public throwing a "tantrum", you still shouldn't judge the parents without knowing the full picture.
- com2kid 7mo ago
  There is a difference between kids using bad behavior to get attention or blackmail parents vs kids who have actual behavioral problems they are working through. The first is an actual problem stemming from bad parenting and as a society we should indeed shame parents who raise spoiled kids who expect everything to be given to them.
  - Trasmatta 7mo ago
    The point is that if you just see a kid on the street throwing a tantrum, you don't know which of those situations you're actually looking at
    - com2kid 7mo ago

sublinear 7mo ago

I'm glad you at least determined the root cause. Plenty of truly bad parents shrug responsibility off by making the "technically correct" claim that all kids throw tantrums, therefore they're not a bad parent. They then proceed to provide an unstable environment to raise their kids and the tantrums don't end until well into adulthood.

dismalaf 7mo ago

Dunno, I didn't judge before having a kid. After having a kid, it's 100x easier than people made it out to be and it's hard not to judge.

redwood 7mo ago
Maybe your kid is easier than most.. I would not generalize
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- bcrosby95 7mo ago
  Having multiple kids can make things much harder too. A child that is easy alone may not be easy with siblings. Parents flex for children because there's a lot of things we don't care about. Little Timmy wants to go first? That's fine. But now introduce Little Jane. Little Timmy can't always go first. Now he has to contend with Little Jane. Turn taking is the standard here. Doing it at preschool is one thing, but in every day life, at home, from sunrise to sunset, when tired or sick, is another thing. There's also lots of corner cases to navigate. What if Little Jane wants to watch something that scares Little Timmy? What if Little Timmy missed a turn because he had soccer practice? And so on. You also aren't in control of all turns. For example, birthday parties. Or frequency of seeing friends. What is seen as unfair parts of life by an 8 year old can be completely out of your control. You can oftentimes rely on the older one being a little more flexible than the younger one, and that is a life saver. As a parent you can lean on it and reason with them. But there is a scenario where this falls apart: twins. Congratulations, have fun reasoning with two 1.5 year olds who want opposing things. The corner cases from taking turns can get easier as they get older though. I usually offload it to them: you guys figure out whats fair, everyone has to agree, let me know when you figure it out. This can degenerate into the most stubborn winning though, so I still have to monitor the results and stop relying on it if that's what is happening. I dunno, it feels kinda exhausting for being easy.

doright 7mo ago

I will continue to judge my parents for abusing me throughout childhood until doing so no longer contributes to my own healing. There is no single right way to respond to a hyperactive child but there are plenty of permanently life-altering ones.

throwaw3y 7mo ago
> until doing so no longer contributes to my own healing Resentment is a poison willingly retained; I hope you find healing some day in letting go of those memories
- doright 7mo ago
  Thank you for the kind words. It's less blame/resentment (though I admit I'm still working on it) and more that pretending my childhood was just fine and my parents were absolved of everything just because they tried their hardest was exactly what kept me trapped in a vicious cycle for far too long. Some things go beyond "just" bad parenting and into the level of abuse and potentially lifelong physical/mental conditions. Only by admitting to myself that yes, I was not at fault for all my own misfortunes and maybe someone else did share the blame, was I finally able to start healing. One of my goals is to isolate the healthy parts of blame from the all-consuming and unproductive ones, which I'm still working on. For my case (and I speak for nobody else), I don't want to have children until I'm 100% certain I will not make the same mistake as my forbearers and pass down their trauma to my offspring. Some of that decision-making is out of my hands until I've had enough therapy and healing. That's just what abusive parenting does to a person's psyche. And for what it's worth, I can't predict how my perspectives on parenting will change if I become a parent myself, but even in that case I will never stop believing my own parents were abusive. No model of how the world works makes sense to me without that understanding anymore.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]