5 ms·

> People who are unwilling to figure out the risks just should not use smartphones and the internet. That train has left the station decades ago. The internet

by xg15 7mo ago

> People who are unwilling to figure out the risks just should not use smartphones and the internet. That train has left the station decades ago. The internet has become an essential part of modern societies. People can't not use the internet (or smartphones), at least if they don't live in the woods.

grishka 7mo ago
Have you read my comment in full?
- ceejayoz 7mo ago
  I have, and I have the same objection. Do you have a response to it other than “change society to 15 years ago”?
  - grishka 7mo ago
    No, why should I? I'm not proposing to "change society to 15 years ago", my idea is more selective. It's more like "do a thorough review and restore all the mechanisms that made the use of smartphones and internet optional".
    - john_strinlai 7mo ago
      >"do a thorough review and restore all the mechanisms that made the use of smartphones and internet optional". we should probably workshop ideas that are within reality. downvoters are welcome to tell me how they would approach a worlwide review of everything that requires internet and un-internet it. i will wait. some primer questions to get your brain turning: who organizes and conducts the review? who pays for the review? who pays for the implementations? whats the messaging and how do you convince people to go along with rethinking/re-implementing their entire already-working infrastructure that they have potentially spent millions to billions of dollars on? do you just dissolve all of the internet-only services, and tell the founders to suck it? who enforces it and how?
      - lejalv 7mo ago
        "There is no alternative" is a self-fulfilling prophecy
        john_strinlai 7mo ago
        i am not saying "there is no alternative". i am saying that you cant do a worldwide systematic review of everything that relies on the internet, and un-internet it. if you have a realistic approach to doing so, i will eat my shoe.
        grishka 7mo ago
        If we, the tech-savvy people, start pushing for it, it may have a chance of succeeding. On the other hand, if we take your defeatist approach, it's an absolute certainty that nothing will change.
        john_strinlai 7mo ago
        just because i disagree with your idea does not mean i am taking a "defeatist approach". your idea is not the One Good Idea that everyone must subscribe to or else they must shrug and give up. but, lets hear it. what specifically is involved in "pushing for it"?
        grishka 7mo ago
        For example, me posting this comment is pushing for it a tiny bit. Some organization like the EFF could campaign for something like this. Making algorithmic social media unappealing could help too.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
    - zadikian 7mo ago
      It seems pretty optional in the US at least. My phone has been broken for extended periods of time before. But different story trying to use budget European airlines like Wizz that require an app to get a boarding pass.
      - grishka 7mo ago
        It's also very much optional in Russia as well. Everywhere still takes cash, everything can be done on paper. And speaking of air travel, most airports actually require a printed boarding pass. IIRC you can use an electronic boarding pass in SVO since relatively recently, but I've never done that myself.
      - whyoh 7mo ago
        >budget European airlines like Wizz that require an app to get a boarding pass. They do not. https://www.wizzair.com/en-gb/help-centre/check-in-and-boarding/boarding/boarding-card-issues https://www.wizzair.com/en-gb/help-centre/check-in-and-board... https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-ie/articles/39758330098577-What-about-passengers-who-don-t-have-a-smartphone-or-tablet https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-ie/articles/39758330098577-Wh...
        zadikian 7mo ago
        Ryanair FAQ may be out of date then. I have a Ryanair flight booked. In the portal, it says "You must download the Ryanair App. This is the only way to access your digital boarding pass, paper boarding passes are no longer issued or accepted." Will see about Wizz, maybe it was only Ryanair.
        medvidek 7mo ago
        I flew with RyanAir once after the rules changed, did online check-in on a computer, at the check-in desk at the airport got a paper boarding pass for free, just had to pretend that my phone died and that I have no charger with me.
        7mo ago

by xg15 7mo ago

grishka 7mo ago

Have you read my comment in full?

ceejayoz 7mo ago
I have, and I have the same objection. Do you have a response to it other than “change society to 15 years ago”?
- grishka 7mo ago
  No, why should I? I'm not proposing to "change society to 15 years ago", my idea is more selective. It's more like "do a thorough review and restore all the mechanisms that made the use of smartphones and internet optional".
  - john_strinlai 7mo ago
    >"do a thorough review and restore all the mechanisms that made the use of smartphones and internet optional". we should probably workshop ideas that are within reality. downvoters are welcome to tell me how they would approach a worlwide review of everything that requires internet and un-internet it. i will wait. some primer questions to get your brain turning: who organizes and conducts the review? who pays for the review? who pays for the implementations? whats the messaging and how do you convince people to go along with rethinking/re-implementing their entire already-working infrastructure that they have potentially spent millions to billions of dollars on? do you just dissolve all of the internet-only services, and tell the founders to suck it? who enforces it and how?
    - lejalv 7mo ago
      "There is no alternative" is a self-fulfilling prophecy
      - john_strinlai 7mo ago
        i am not saying "there is no alternative". i am saying that you cant do a worldwide systematic review of everything that relies on the internet, and un-internet it. if you have a realistic approach to doing so, i will eat my shoe.
        grishka 7mo ago
        If we, the tech-savvy people, start pushing for it, it may have a chance of succeeding. On the other hand, if we take your defeatist approach, it's an absolute certainty that nothing will change.
        john_strinlai 7mo ago
        just because i disagree with your idea does not mean i am taking a "defeatist approach". your idea is not the One Good Idea that everyone must subscribe to or else they must shrug and give up. but, lets hear it. what specifically is involved in "pushing for it"?
        grishka 7mo ago
        For example, me posting this comment is pushing for it a tiny bit. Some organization like the EFF could campaign for something like this. Making algorithmic social media unappealing could help too.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
  - zadikian 7mo ago
    It seems pretty optional in the US at least. My phone has been broken for extended periods of time before. But different story trying to use budget European airlines like Wizz that require an app to get a boarding pass.
    - grishka 7mo ago
      It's also very much optional in Russia as well. Everywhere still takes cash, everything can be done on paper. And speaking of air travel, most airports actually require a printed boarding pass. IIRC you can use an electronic boarding pass in SVO since relatively recently, but I've never done that myself.
    - whyoh 7mo ago
      >budget European airlines like Wizz that require an app to get a boarding pass. They do not. https://www.wizzair.com/en-gb/help-centre/check-in-and-boarding/boarding/boarding-card-issues https://www.wizzair.com/en-gb/help-centre/check-in-and-board... https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-ie/articles/39758330098577-What-about-passengers-who-don-t-have-a-smartphone-or-tablet https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-ie/articles/39758330098577-Wh...
      - zadikian 7mo ago
        Ryanair FAQ may be out of date then. I have a Ryanair flight booked. In the portal, it says "You must download the Ryanair App. This is the only way to access your digital boarding pass, paper boarding passes are no longer issued or accepted." Will see about Wizz, maybe it was only Ryanair.
        medvidek 7mo ago
        I flew with RyanAir once after the rules changed, did online check-in on a computer, at the check-in desk at the airport got a paper boarding pass for free, just had to pretend that my phone died and that I have no charger with me.
        7mo ago