3 ms·

That's a heterodox interpretation. Something akin to it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_

by fulafel 7mo ago

That's a heterodox interpretation. Something akin to it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union but it's no more.

jacquesm 7mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collective-defence.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collecti...
- fulafel 7mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances The EU treaty has a clause that calls for assistance for part of the members (who are not neutral) but there's no military structure outside NATO. There's also a perpatual public debate about whether EU should become a military alliance. eg https://theloop.ecpr.eu/can-the-eu-form-an-autonomous-military-alliance/ https://theloop.ecpr.eu/can-the-eu-form-an-autonomous-milita... In practical terms, in event of a invasion, only NATO has a organisation set up for coordinated response.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    You are really completely clueless, I have no idea why you keep posting comments that contradict your own comments but fine, whatever. There are four different mutual defense pacts in Europe and there is an umbrella one and they all operate independently of NATO. And then there is NATO, with or without the USA.
    - fulafel 7mo ago
      Hey, a bit of civility please. I assume the contradiction you refer to is that EU has this clause but it's still not considered a military alliance? Maybe you read the term differently. It doesn't mean it has zero defense dimensions, it's that its mission or capability are not military. That's why NATO is the one a would-be invader needs to worry about wrt military consequences.
  - fatbird 7mo ago
    In WW2, was there an existing organisation for a coordinated response? In the Korean War? Was NATO the organization that coordinated allies in the Persian Gulf War?
    - fulafel 7mo ago
      Of course military alliances can be formed after wars start, I'm not saying this couldn't happen in Europe. But it's different to have a military alliance existing responding to a conflict (or better yet preventing the conflict, as the military alliance served as a deterrent).

by fulafel 7mo ago

That's a heterodox interpretation. Something akin to it was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Union but it's no more.

jacquesm 7mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_defense_pacts_of_... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collective-defence.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/collecti...

fulafel 7mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_alliances The EU treaty has a clause that calls for assistance for part of the members (who are not neutral) but there's no military structure outside NATO. There's also a perpatual public debate about whether EU should become a military alliance. eg https://theloop.ecpr.eu/can-the-eu-form-an-autonomous-military-alliance/ https://theloop.ecpr.eu/can-the-eu-form-an-autonomous-milita... In practical terms, in event of a invasion, only NATO has a organisation set up for coordinated response.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  You are really completely clueless, I have no idea why you keep posting comments that contradict your own comments but fine, whatever. There are four different mutual defense pacts in Europe and there is an umbrella one and they all operate independently of NATO. And then there is NATO, with or without the USA.
  - fulafel 7mo ago
    Hey, a bit of civility please. I assume the contradiction you refer to is that EU has this clause but it's still not considered a military alliance? Maybe you read the term differently. It doesn't mean it has zero defense dimensions, it's that its mission or capability are not military. That's why NATO is the one a would-be invader needs to worry about wrt military consequences.
- fatbird 7mo ago
  In WW2, was there an existing organisation for a coordinated response? In the Korean War? Was NATO the organization that coordinated allies in the Persian Gulf War?
  - fulafel 7mo ago
    Of course military alliances can be formed after wars start, I'm not saying this couldn't happen in Europe. But it's different to have a military alliance existing responding to a conflict (or better yet preventing the conflict, as the military alliance served as a deterrent).