4 ms·

It's rare even in NI. PSNI had one single firearm discharge in the two year period covering October 2023 - September 2025. Plus 948 uses of irritant spray, 49

It's rare even in NI. PSNI had one single firearm discharge in the two year period covering October 2023 - September 2025. Plus 948 uses of irritant spray, 496 uses of their baton, and 38 taser discharges in the same period. And 23,489 uses of "unarmed physical tactics". That's for a population of around 2 million. By comparison, SFPD had 10 "officer involved shootings" in the past year for a population of 800k, a rate fifty times higher than that in NI.

Anthony-G 7mo ago
True. The PSNI have had an excellent record – particularly given the difficult context they work in. I guess the above poster is thinking of the shoot-to-kill era of the 80s (still well within living memory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northe...
- roryirvine 7mo ago
  Yeah, it was very different back then. And not just the police - we had the army on the streets with weapons drawn, routinely aiming at passersby. The political situation in the late 1960s provided plenty of kindling, but it seems clear that most of the sparks that actually caused the conflagration came from the barrel of guns held by soldiers and the police. They were directly responsible both for the death of the civil rights movement and the collapse of the government, and without the heavy-handed response it's likely that the settlement of the late 90s would've happened 25 years earlier. It's actually a great example of why the militarisation of policing should be resisted at all cost.
BobaFloutist 7mo ago
The one thing I'll say in defense of American cops is that they are police a population that's vastly more likely to have their own guns, too. Of course it's not like American cops have recognized the danger that poses and politically aligned themselves with reducing or restricting access to guns, so they lose a lot of credit there, but they are genuinely facing a better armed and therefore more dangerous population.
- atherton94027 7mo ago
  Canada has the same rates of gun ownership as America and you don't see cops come up with guns blazing like they do here
  - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Open-Sourcery 7mo ago
      "My source is that I made it the fuck up"
      - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 7mo ago
      > Let’s bring data: > Source: ChatGPT Please tell me this is a joke?
      - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        Why? Do you have different data or you just don’t like the numbers? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-and-daily-life-identity-experiences-activities-and-involvement/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-an... - https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article/00011-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article...
        snakeboy 7mo ago
        I fail to understand why you cited ChatGPT in the first comment instead of just linking the sources in the first place. That was obviously the critique of your comment, and it seems bad-faith to claim it was because they "just don't like the numbers".
m0llusk 7mo ago
That is bad use of statistics. San Francisco forms the core of an urban conurbation of over eight million people.
- roryirvine 7mo ago
  Sure, but SFPD covers only the County of San Francisco which had a population of 827,526 in 2024. It's certainly not a perfect comparison by any means - but that's more to do with the very different urban/rural splits, forms and structures of inequality, histories of segregation and political violence etc. If you can suggest another American police department which would make for a better comparison, I'd be interested in seeing the stats... but I strongly suspect that they'd show a very similar contrast.

Anthony-G 7mo ago

True. The PSNI have had an excellent record – particularly given the difficult context they work in. I guess the above poster is thinking of the shoot-to-kill era of the 80s (still well within living memory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northe...

roryirvine 7mo ago
Yeah, it was very different back then. And not just the police - we had the army on the streets with weapons drawn, routinely aiming at passersby. The political situation in the late 1960s provided plenty of kindling, but it seems clear that most of the sparks that actually caused the conflagration came from the barrel of guns held by soldiers and the police. They were directly responsible both for the death of the civil rights movement and the collapse of the government, and without the heavy-handed response it's likely that the settlement of the late 90s would've happened 25 years earlier. It's actually a great example of why the militarisation of policing should be resisted at all cost.

BobaFloutist 7mo ago

The one thing I'll say in defense of American cops is that they are police a population that's vastly more likely to have their own guns, too. Of course it's not like American cops have recognized the danger that poses and politically aligned themselves with reducing or restricting access to guns, so they lose a lot of credit there, but they are genuinely facing a better armed and therefore more dangerous population.

atherton94027 7mo ago
Canada has the same rates of gun ownership as America and you don't see cops come up with guns blazing like they do here
- dogemaster2025 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Open-Sourcery 7mo ago
    "My source is that I made it the fuck up"
    - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
      [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 7mo ago
    > Let’s bring data: > Source: ChatGPT Please tell me this is a joke?
    - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
      Why? Do you have different data or you just don’t like the numbers? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-and-daily-life-identity-experiences-activities-and-involvement/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-an... - https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article/00011-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article...
      - snakeboy 7mo ago
        I fail to understand why you cited ChatGPT in the first comment instead of just linking the sources in the first place. That was obviously the critique of your comment, and it seems bad-faith to claim it was because they "just don't like the numbers".

m0llusk 7mo ago

That is bad use of statistics. San Francisco forms the core of an urban conurbation of over eight million people.

roryirvine 7mo ago
Sure, but SFPD covers only the County of San Francisco which had a population of 827,526 in 2024. It's certainly not a perfect comparison by any means - but that's more to do with the very different urban/rural splits, forms and structures of inequality, histories of segregation and political violence etc. If you can suggest another American police department which would make for a better comparison, I'd be interested in seeing the stats... but I strongly suspect that they'd show a very similar contrast.