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Still wishing for the day apple is split into the hardware and the software company. I want their silicon, but I will never use their (arguably terrible) operat

Still wishing for the day apple is split into the hardware and the software company. I want their silicon, but I will never use their (arguably terrible) operating system. If I can't run my own kernel and kernel modules then it's a device that I don't own. Firmware is alright in some cases, but my laptop next to me is running core boot just to prove a point.

t-sauer 7mo ago
But you can run your own kernel on Macs, no? Isn‘t driver support the issue?
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- vbezhenar 7mo ago
  Maybe Apple Hardware would write Linux drivers to sell their hardware for servers. Intel contributes to Linux kernel. AMD contributes to Linux kernel. Nvidia contributes to Linux kernel. A lot of hardware manufacturers support Linux to some extent. It's no longer reverse-engineered wild west.
- himata4113 7mo ago
  Not on new silicon and asahi linux is still pretty damn far from being able to use it seriously. I do appreciate the effort, but I am just saying that it would be a lot better if you know, apple sold the hardware so vendors could build laptops with apple silicon.
  - CamJN 7mo ago
    Apple literally made step by step instructions for compiling and running your own kernel on Apple silicon. Not sure how you think asahi Linux works otherwise. Sure the drivers are anywhere from bad to non existent but that’s not the same thing as being unable to run your own kernel.
    - himata4113 7mo ago
      This is news to me, where can I find this? I was under the assumption that most of asahi linux was reverse engineered. It's the reason why they're also stuck on M3? Edit: I can only find 3rd party resources. The only first party is for older macbooks (intel based)
- mort96 7mo ago
  Driver support is pretty hard when nothing is documented and security features limit reverse engineering. Hardware companies either document their hardware properly, or they write drivers for third party operating systems, or both.
whalesalad 7mo ago
macOS is not perfect but I don't think anyone could seriously argue that it is terrible.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- hedora 7mo ago
  It’s pretty bad. IPC doesn’t work reliably any more. The window manager is unusable. Spotlight misses results and also pegs the cpu, killing battery. Finder is bad enough on its own, but the 1:N mapping from logical directories to filesystem directories (like photos, home, applications, etc) makes it essentially unusable without spotlight. Notifications are flaky as hell (missing phone calls and messages from contacts, but displaying explicitly blocked spam sms). Copy paste between devices has never worked right. Which part of the OS is not terrible in your experience? Edit: also, compatibility with video games (even ones released for macos) is abysmal. It’s much worse than Linux’s ability to run the Windows version of MacOS native releases!
  - theshrike79 7mo ago
    > Edit: also, compatibility with video games (even ones released for macos) is abysmal. It’s much worse than Linux’s ability to run the Windows version of MacOS native releases! Linux can run Windows native games because Valve has shoved millions and millions into perfecting Proton. And I still wonder why Apple hasn't just dumped a billion on Valve's door to build a similar tool for macOS.
    - systoll 7mo ago
      Apple’s ‘Game Porting Toolkit’ is basically Proton; they just haven’t made a GUI for it.
      - theshrike79 7mo ago
        The issue with that it requires the dev to do a "port". Proton requires absolutely nothing.
mikestew 7mo ago
(arguably terrible) operating system macOS has made some arguably poor design choices, but it makes it hard to take someone seriously when they state the whole OS is terrible.
- seemaze 7mo ago
  It's the worst OS we have.. except for all the others.
- himata4113 7mo ago
  It could be just me, but every time I tried to do something I sat thinking that I am not the target audience for this thing. I don't like the UI, I hate not being able to talk to the hardware the way I can on linux (uart took me way too long to get working), I am angry that I am not able to run kvm, I hate not being able to replace the desktop and fix bugs myself. That's what makes it terrible for me.
  - TheSkyHasEyes 7mo ago
    MacOS IMHO is no longer a viable OS for people like us(who know what this website even is). MacOS26 along with Windows11 are enshittifying and in some ways it's glorious to see. I do feel bad for non-IT people though, Linux is daunting to them...I get it.
    - marcyb5st 7mo ago
      With my setup (GhosTTY, tmux, nvim) I don't have any problems honestly. When working with UI stuff I use rectangle to get a bit of the tiling behavior I was used to on i3, but nowadays I need that less and les because of browsers adding split view within themselves. Battery is great and everything feels snappy even after the PC being powered on for weeks.
  - mikestew 7mo ago
    Fair enough, thanks for clarifying your distaste for macOS. Sounds like any closed source OS just isn’t for you. :-)

t-sauer 7mo ago

But you can run your own kernel on Macs, no? Isn‘t driver support the issue?

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
vbezhenar 7mo ago
Maybe Apple Hardware would write Linux drivers to sell their hardware for servers. Intel contributes to Linux kernel. AMD contributes to Linux kernel. Nvidia contributes to Linux kernel. A lot of hardware manufacturers support Linux to some extent. It's no longer reverse-engineered wild west.
himata4113 7mo ago
Not on new silicon and asahi linux is still pretty damn far from being able to use it seriously. I do appreciate the effort, but I am just saying that it would be a lot better if you know, apple sold the hardware so vendors could build laptops with apple silicon.
- CamJN 7mo ago
  Apple literally made step by step instructions for compiling and running your own kernel on Apple silicon. Not sure how you think asahi Linux works otherwise. Sure the drivers are anywhere from bad to non existent but that’s not the same thing as being unable to run your own kernel.
  - himata4113 7mo ago
    This is news to me, where can I find this? I was under the assumption that most of asahi linux was reverse engineered. It's the reason why they're also stuck on M3? Edit: I can only find 3rd party resources. The only first party is for older macbooks (intel based)
mort96 7mo ago
Driver support is pretty hard when nothing is documented and security features limit reverse engineering. Hardware companies either document their hardware properly, or they write drivers for third party operating systems, or both.

whalesalad 7mo ago

macOS is not perfect but I don't think anyone could seriously argue that it is terrible.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
hedora 7mo ago
It’s pretty bad. IPC doesn’t work reliably any more. The window manager is unusable. Spotlight misses results and also pegs the cpu, killing battery. Finder is bad enough on its own, but the 1:N mapping from logical directories to filesystem directories (like photos, home, applications, etc) makes it essentially unusable without spotlight. Notifications are flaky as hell (missing phone calls and messages from contacts, but displaying explicitly blocked spam sms). Copy paste between devices has never worked right. Which part of the OS is not terrible in your experience? Edit: also, compatibility with video games (even ones released for macos) is abysmal. It’s much worse than Linux’s ability to run the Windows version of MacOS native releases!
- theshrike79 7mo ago
  > Edit: also, compatibility with video games (even ones released for macos) is abysmal. It’s much worse than Linux’s ability to run the Windows version of MacOS native releases! Linux can run Windows native games because Valve has shoved millions and millions into perfecting Proton. And I still wonder why Apple hasn't just dumped a billion on Valve's door to build a similar tool for macOS.
  - systoll 7mo ago
    Apple’s ‘Game Porting Toolkit’ is basically Proton; they just haven’t made a GUI for it.
    - theshrike79 7mo ago
      The issue with that it requires the dev to do a "port". Proton requires absolutely nothing.

mikestew 7mo ago

(arguably terrible) operating system macOS has made some arguably poor design choices, but it makes it hard to take someone seriously when they state the whole OS is terrible.

seemaze 7mo ago
It's the worst OS we have.. except for all the others.
himata4113 7mo ago
It could be just me, but every time I tried to do something I sat thinking that I am not the target audience for this thing. I don't like the UI, I hate not being able to talk to the hardware the way I can on linux (uart took me way too long to get working), I am angry that I am not able to run kvm, I hate not being able to replace the desktop and fix bugs myself. That's what makes it terrible for me.
- TheSkyHasEyes 7mo ago
  MacOS IMHO is no longer a viable OS for people like us(who know what this website even is). MacOS26 along with Windows11 are enshittifying and in some ways it's glorious to see. I do feel bad for non-IT people though, Linux is daunting to them...I get it.
  - marcyb5st 7mo ago
    With my setup (GhosTTY, tmux, nvim) I don't have any problems honestly. When working with UI stuff I use rectangle to get a bit of the tiling behavior I was used to on i3, but nowadays I need that less and les because of browsers adding split view within themselves. Battery is great and everything feels snappy even after the PC being powered on for weeks.
- mikestew 7mo ago
  Fair enough, thanks for clarifying your distaste for macOS. Sounds like any closed source OS just isn’t for you. :-)