4 ms·

I mean the key point there I think is the one where they point out that Brits simply wouldn’t accept police regularly shooting people. Policing for the people b

I mean the key point there I think is the one where they point out that Brits simply wouldn’t accept police regularly shooting people. Policing for the people by the people.* * and pretend Northern Ireland doesn’t exist, or course

GJim 7mo ago
[flagged]
- petesergeant 7mo ago
  If you need some context, you can look up the history of policing in Northern Ireland on Wikipedia, where British police were happily shooting other British people for many years.
  - GJim 7mo ago
    [flagged]
roryirvine 7mo ago
It's rare even in NI. PSNI had one single firearm discharge in the two year period covering October 2023 - September 2025. Plus 948 uses of irritant spray, 496 uses of their baton, and 38 taser discharges in the same period. And 23,489 uses of "unarmed physical tactics". That's for a population of around 2 million. By comparison, SFPD had 10 "officer involved shootings" in the past year for a population of 800k, a rate fifty times higher than that in NI.
- Anthony-G 7mo ago
  True. The PSNI have had an excellent record – particularly given the difficult context they work in. I guess the above poster is thinking of the shoot-to-kill era of the 80s (still well within living memory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northe...
  - roryirvine 7mo ago
    Yeah, it was very different back then. And not just the police - we had the army on the streets with weapons drawn, routinely aiming at passersby. The political situation in the late 1960s provided plenty of kindling, but it seems clear that most of the sparks that actually caused the conflagration came from the barrel of guns held by soldiers and the police. They were directly responsible both for the death of the civil rights movement and the collapse of the government, and without the heavy-handed response it's likely that the settlement of the late 90s would've happened 25 years earlier. It's actually a great example of why the militarisation of policing should be resisted at all cost.
- BobaFloutist 7mo ago
  The one thing I'll say in defense of American cops is that they are police a population that's vastly more likely to have their own guns, too. Of course it's not like American cops have recognized the danger that poses and politically aligned themselves with reducing or restricting access to guns, so they lose a lot of credit there, but they are genuinely facing a better armed and therefore more dangerous population.
  - atherton94027 7mo ago
    Canada has the same rates of gun ownership as America and you don't see cops come up with guns blazing like they do here
    - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
      [flagged]
      - Open-Sourcery 7mo ago
        "My source is that I made it the fuck up"
        dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        [flagged]
      - ceejayoz 7mo ago
        > Let’s bring data: > Source: ChatGPT Please tell me this is a joke?
        dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        Why? Do you have different data or you just don’t like the numbers? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-and-daily-life-identity-experiences-activities-and-involvement/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-an... - https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article/00011-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article...
- m0llusk 7mo ago
  That is bad use of statistics. San Francisco forms the core of an urban conurbation of over eight million people.
  - roryirvine 7mo ago
    Sure, but SFPD covers only the County of San Francisco which had a population of 827,526 in 2024. It's certainly not a perfect comparison by any means - but that's more to do with the very different urban/rural splits, forms and structures of inequality, histories of segregation and political violence etc. If you can suggest another American police department which would make for a better comparison, I'd be interested in seeing the stats... but I strongly suspect that they'd show a very similar contrast.
watwut 7mo ago
In Britain, there is independent civilian investigation when cops kill a person. It creates pressure to not kill, because you wont be judged by buddies.
- tialaramex 7mo ago
  Well, the IOPC (Independent Office for Police Conduct) has mandatory referrals, not only when police apparently shot somebody, or they die in police custody, or in a traffic accident with a police vehicle, but also cases where the police were recently involved. e.g. Sharon calls police because she says her husband punched her, when officers attend Sharon now says he didn't mean to and seems reluctant to leave or for her husband to be arrested, attending officers decide to leave it as it is, an hour later Sharon is dead and her husband is her presumed killer - that's a police involved death and so that gets referred to the IOPC even though nobody thinks a cop killed anybody. However, the IOPC is not mandated to conduct investigations. So it is possible (though less likely for a shooting) that the IOPC will just kick it back to local police. It is also possible (and more likely) that they will oversee but use local police to do the actual work, just because that's much cheaper and their budget is limited.
_menelaus 7mo ago
Have you ever been to inner city America? Honestly curious. I couldn't imagine policing it without using a gun sometime.

GJim 7mo ago

[flagged]

petesergeant 7mo ago
If you need some context, you can look up the history of policing in Northern Ireland on Wikipedia, where British police were happily shooting other British people for many years.
- GJim 7mo ago
  [flagged]

roryirvine 7mo ago

It's rare even in NI. PSNI had one single firearm discharge in the two year period covering October 2023 - September 2025. Plus 948 uses of irritant spray, 496 uses of their baton, and 38 taser discharges in the same period. And 23,489 uses of "unarmed physical tactics". That's for a population of around 2 million. By comparison, SFPD had 10 "officer involved shootings" in the past year for a population of 800k, a rate fifty times higher than that in NI.

Anthony-G 7mo ago
True. The PSNI have had an excellent record – particularly given the difficult context they work in. I guess the above poster is thinking of the shoot-to-kill era of the 80s (still well within living memory): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-kill_policy_in_Northe...
- roryirvine 7mo ago
  Yeah, it was very different back then. And not just the police - we had the army on the streets with weapons drawn, routinely aiming at passersby. The political situation in the late 1960s provided plenty of kindling, but it seems clear that most of the sparks that actually caused the conflagration came from the barrel of guns held by soldiers and the police. They were directly responsible both for the death of the civil rights movement and the collapse of the government, and without the heavy-handed response it's likely that the settlement of the late 90s would've happened 25 years earlier. It's actually a great example of why the militarisation of policing should be resisted at all cost.
BobaFloutist 7mo ago
The one thing I'll say in defense of American cops is that they are police a population that's vastly more likely to have their own guns, too. Of course it's not like American cops have recognized the danger that poses and politically aligned themselves with reducing or restricting access to guns, so they lose a lot of credit there, but they are genuinely facing a better armed and therefore more dangerous population.
- atherton94027 7mo ago
  Canada has the same rates of gun ownership as America and you don't see cops come up with guns blazing like they do here
  - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Open-Sourcery 7mo ago
      "My source is that I made it the fuck up"
      - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 7mo ago
      > Let’s bring data: > Source: ChatGPT Please tell me this is a joke?
      - dogemaster2025 7mo ago
        Why? Do you have different data or you just don’t like the numbers? - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts... - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-and-daily-life-identity-experiences-activities-and-involvement/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/guns-an... - https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article/00011-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2025001/article...
m0llusk 7mo ago
That is bad use of statistics. San Francisco forms the core of an urban conurbation of over eight million people.
- roryirvine 7mo ago
  Sure, but SFPD covers only the County of San Francisco which had a population of 827,526 in 2024. It's certainly not a perfect comparison by any means - but that's more to do with the very different urban/rural splits, forms and structures of inequality, histories of segregation and political violence etc. If you can suggest another American police department which would make for a better comparison, I'd be interested in seeing the stats... but I strongly suspect that they'd show a very similar contrast.

watwut 7mo ago

In Britain, there is independent civilian investigation when cops kill a person. It creates pressure to not kill, because you wont be judged by buddies.

tialaramex 7mo ago
Well, the IOPC (Independent Office for Police Conduct) has mandatory referrals, not only when police apparently shot somebody, or they die in police custody, or in a traffic accident with a police vehicle, but also cases where the police were recently involved. e.g. Sharon calls police because she says her husband punched her, when officers attend Sharon now says he didn't mean to and seems reluctant to leave or for her husband to be arrested, attending officers decide to leave it as it is, an hour later Sharon is dead and her husband is her presumed killer - that's a police involved death and so that gets referred to the IOPC even though nobody thinks a cop killed anybody. However, the IOPC is not mandated to conduct investigations. So it is possible (though less likely for a shooting) that the IOPC will just kick it back to local police. It is also possible (and more likely) that they will oversee but use local police to do the actual work, just because that's much cheaper and their budget is limited.

_menelaus 7mo ago

Have you ever been to inner city America? Honestly curious. I couldn't imagine policing it without using a gun sometime.