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There's a difference between "posturing" for show and actually "preparing for war". They're wise to the fact that "the Stable Genius" isn't going to try anythi

There's a difference between "posturing" for show and actually "preparing for war". They're wise to the fact that "the Stable Genius" isn't going to try anything violent with Denmark/Greenland, but they still want to prevent him thinking about just stealing territory "peacefully."

Trasmatta 7mo ago
This is the type of thinking that convinced people that Trump would never be stupid enough to start a full on war with Iran. And yet here we are.
jacquesm 7mo ago
Trust me, Denmark wasn't posturing. The assumption was - and still is - that the USA wasn't posturing either. We (and I realize I obviously don't speak for all of Europe but I have my finger on the pulse in many places here) are also not assuming that when Trump is gone the USA will go back to normal.
- Insanity 7mo ago
  And even if they did go back to normal for the next presidency - why trust it? Their entire political system is set up so that the winds can change entirely every 4 years. If the people voted Trump in to office twice, it’ll happen again. It’s a divided country where propaganda has a strong hold.
  - dspillett 7mo ago
    Useful stability can be achieved again, either “back to normal” as mentioned elsewhere in this thread or “forward to something different but better (and not crap like it is now)”, but it is going to take at least a few terms, maybe several. Even if it did happen more quickly, it will take that long for those of us on the outside to trust it, reputational damage like this can not be undone quickly.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
- easytiger 7mo ago
  This is absurd in the extreme. In actual war there is absolutely no possibility of success for Denmark, even with the help of allies. Failure to capitulate results in nothing but death and destruction with no hope of strategic gain to begin with. What you are likely experiencing is a modern belief that screaming and shouting will bring popular diplomatic pressure to bear on the opponent, thus arresting their actions. There was similar tough talk in 1940 and Denmark lasted 6 hours. Without capitulation the country would have been razed. But surrender saw it able to keep some level of control and thus extricate the Jewish population in relative safety which would not otherwise have been possible.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    No, what is absurd is the number of people that can't wait to go back to a world with endless wars of conquest. We already know what that looks like. If you have never seen war up close then I am happy to forgive you, but trust me, in 'actual war' there is no possibility of success for anybody, there are only degrees of damage and degrees of grief and illusions to the contrary are focused on the few people that manage to get out of war with the profits in their pockets. Everybody else suffers.
    - easytiger 7mo ago
      I'm sorry but you are not interacting with the rational suppositions of posters in various threads here. No one is arguing for a war except you. People are explaining to you the strategic reality and you are espousing rhetoric that I honestly can't decipher. 1. Denmark cannot win militarily 2. You are suggesting Denmark would not capitulate and indeed enter into a state of war What do you think happens in this situation?
      - vrganj 7mo ago
        France has a nuclear deterrent it has stated has "a European dimension". Don't go around poking hornets nests if you don't want to get stung.
- NikolaNovak 7mo ago
  USA cannot go back to normal. The internal damage / changeover is massive - everybody disagreing with current administration policies has either been removed or departed - whether in health or defense (I'm sorry, War) or science or education or other departments.
- fifticon 7mo ago
  They will not go back to anything resembling the old normal :-/. Trump & his cronies have obliterated the Overton Window so hard you cannot even tell which side of the house the window used to be in. The successors for Trump will be worse, because they will not be senile old men who sabotage themselves, and the checks-and-balances against this millenia-old crap have now been pretty well dismantled :-/. We are entering an age where US will behave like a weird sort of Russia#2, run by oligarchs. In a way it was of course always run (or influenced) by oligarchs, but nothing like the scale we are going to see from now on. But.. look at the history of US, the last hundred or so years, and how they behaved south of Mexico (I am not particularly calling out US here, of course Europe has also been bad).
jnwatson 7mo ago
Ukraine thought Russia was just posturing and look where it got them.
- schnitzelstoat 7mo ago
  Yeah, tbh I was in the camp of 'nothing ever happens' too and I was shocked when they actually invaded.
- __bjoernd 7mo ago
  I'm pretty sure Ukraine were taking the Russian preparations as what they were. And they had plans to counter them. Proven by the fact that Putin's 3 days war has now surpassed the Russian involvement in WWII.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  That's not true. Ukraine was well prepared, they had spent since 2014 on this because they knew the day would come. That's the only reason the country still exists.

Trasmatta 7mo ago

This is the type of thinking that convinced people that Trump would never be stupid enough to start a full on war with Iran. And yet here we are.

jacquesm 7mo ago

Trust me, Denmark wasn't posturing. The assumption was - and still is - that the USA wasn't posturing either. We (and I realize I obviously don't speak for all of Europe but I have my finger on the pulse in many places here) are also not assuming that when Trump is gone the USA will go back to normal.

Insanity 7mo ago
And even if they did go back to normal for the next presidency - why trust it? Their entire political system is set up so that the winds can change entirely every 4 years. If the people voted Trump in to office twice, it’ll happen again. It’s a divided country where propaganda has a strong hold.
- dspillett 7mo ago
  Useful stability can be achieved again, either “back to normal” as mentioned elsewhere in this thread or “forward to something different but better (and not crap like it is now)”, but it is going to take at least a few terms, maybe several. Even if it did happen more quickly, it will take that long for those of us on the outside to trust it, reputational damage like this can not be undone quickly.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
easytiger 7mo ago
This is absurd in the extreme. In actual war there is absolutely no possibility of success for Denmark, even with the help of allies. Failure to capitulate results in nothing but death and destruction with no hope of strategic gain to begin with. What you are likely experiencing is a modern belief that screaming and shouting will bring popular diplomatic pressure to bear on the opponent, thus arresting their actions. There was similar tough talk in 1940 and Denmark lasted 6 hours. Without capitulation the country would have been razed. But surrender saw it able to keep some level of control and thus extricate the Jewish population in relative safety which would not otherwise have been possible.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  No, what is absurd is the number of people that can't wait to go back to a world with endless wars of conquest. We already know what that looks like. If you have never seen war up close then I am happy to forgive you, but trust me, in 'actual war' there is no possibility of success for anybody, there are only degrees of damage and degrees of grief and illusions to the contrary are focused on the few people that manage to get out of war with the profits in their pockets. Everybody else suffers.
  - easytiger 7mo ago
    I'm sorry but you are not interacting with the rational suppositions of posters in various threads here. No one is arguing for a war except you. People are explaining to you the strategic reality and you are espousing rhetoric that I honestly can't decipher. 1. Denmark cannot win militarily 2. You are suggesting Denmark would not capitulate and indeed enter into a state of war What do you think happens in this situation?
    - vrganj 7mo ago
      France has a nuclear deterrent it has stated has "a European dimension". Don't go around poking hornets nests if you don't want to get stung.
NikolaNovak 7mo ago
USA cannot go back to normal. The internal damage / changeover is massive - everybody disagreing with current administration policies has either been removed or departed - whether in health or defense (I'm sorry, War) or science or education or other departments.
fifticon 7mo ago
They will not go back to anything resembling the old normal :-/. Trump & his cronies have obliterated the Overton Window so hard you cannot even tell which side of the house the window used to be in. The successors for Trump will be worse, because they will not be senile old men who sabotage themselves, and the checks-and-balances against this millenia-old crap have now been pretty well dismantled :-/. We are entering an age where US will behave like a weird sort of Russia#2, run by oligarchs. In a way it was of course always run (or influenced) by oligarchs, but nothing like the scale we are going to see from now on. But.. look at the history of US, the last hundred or so years, and how they behaved south of Mexico (I am not particularly calling out US here, of course Europe has also been bad).

jnwatson 7mo ago

Ukraine thought Russia was just posturing and look where it got them.

schnitzelstoat 7mo ago
Yeah, tbh I was in the camp of 'nothing ever happens' too and I was shocked when they actually invaded.
__bjoernd 7mo ago
I'm pretty sure Ukraine were taking the Russian preparations as what they were. And they had plans to counter them. Proven by the fact that Putin's 3 days war has now surpassed the Russian involvement in WWII.
jacquesm 7mo ago
That's not true. Ukraine was well prepared, they had spent since 2014 on this because they knew the day would come. That's the only reason the country still exists.